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- Tue Feb 06, 2024 9:02 am
- Forum: Historical Research
- Topic: Written Sources for Gambesons/Aketons/Pourpoints 1100-1350
- Replies: 174
- Views: 96652
Re: Written Sources for Gambesons/Aketons/Pourpoints 1100-1350
Over on MyArmoury Len Parker found a Norwegian King's Saga written after 1263 which has someone wearing a treja (quilted coat) and a byrnie (mail coat). Together with the Þiðreks saga that you've allready cited, this is as far as I can tell the oldest use of the word 'treja' in Norse sources. Two e...
- Wed Jun 21, 2023 4:30 pm
- Forum: Interpretive Re-creation
- Topic: Mac's new fauldstool
- Replies: 56
- Views: 15375
Re: Mac's new fauldstool
Thank you for your advice, sir. after staring at it for a few hours, i agree that it is best to take it down a bit. I'll remove a few cm of the seat, move the cross down and reduce the height a few cm too. https://hoveloghage.files.wordpress.com/2023/06/image-6.png?w=996 The remarkable image in Anot...
- Wed Jun 21, 2023 2:28 am
- Forum: Interpretive Re-creation
- Topic: Mac's new fauldstool
- Replies: 56
- Views: 15375
Re: Mac's new fauldstool
The seat is 18" from the ground. It's 14 1/2" wide and 11 1/4" deep. [...] The first and last seat slats are indeed wider than the ones in between. I got the idea from this stool in a Robert Campin painting. The pivots are clearly a lot higher than you would expect, and the only reason I could thin...
- Thu Sep 15, 2022 9:30 am
- Forum: Historical Research
- Topic: Viking Arms and Armor, Again
- Replies: 5
- Views: 11495
Re: Viking Arms and Armor, Again
The text from Vikingeskibsmuseet seem to be guesswork directed at kids. While the individual weapon requirements seems relatively accurate (allthough the Norwegian Gulating law says 'broad axe or sword', not 'and'). The article constructs a term "light axes", while the old laws clearly contrasted br...
- Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:34 am
- Forum: Historical Research
- Topic: The Panzer Problem
- Replies: 17
- Views: 3148
Re: The Panzer Problem
Len Parker: * The c 1280 Njal's saga is inconclusive, but falls within the period where we are pretty certain that the norse word panzari denoted textile armour. * The law you're referring to i misattributed by Madden 1833. The reference to panzari is first found in Magnus Lawmender's Landslov and y...
- Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:18 am
- Forum: Historical Research
- Topic: The Panzer Problem
- Replies: 17
- Views: 3148
Re: The Panzer Problem
The author of konungsskuggsjá (~1250) literally says 'panzari' is made of linens True. This 13th c old norse meaning is implicit in Sean's original post and I failed to make it explicit. Thanks for pointing it out. This meaning is also among other found in the Sturlunga sagas and Karlamagnus' saga....
- Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:15 am
- Forum: Historical Research
- Topic: The Panzer Problem
- Replies: 17
- Views: 3148
Re: The Panzer Problem
[deleted, doubled post]
- Fri Aug 13, 2021 7:15 am
- Forum: Historical Research
- Topic: The Panzer Problem
- Replies: 17
- Views: 3148
Re: The Panzer Problem
This thread went under my radar, but wery interesting! 1. From the mid 14th century on panzer is used for mail or protection in general in norse too. To me this seem to be the result of a reintroduction of the term from (lower?) Germanic language areas. First shown in the 1340 Bohus royal inventory ...
- Wed Aug 11, 2021 2:58 am
- Forum: Historical Research
- Topic: 14th century paltocks
- Replies: 1
- Views: 448
14th century paltocks
[This is just a preliminary post. It will be edited as I collect scattered sources and interpretations,and decipher the abbrevations] Relevant threads: " Paltocks " (Ernst 2015), " mid 14th century cloth garment nomenclature " (2016) Middle low German cognate: Paltrock . Middle Dutch cognate: Paltro...
- Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:13 am
- Forum: Historical Research
- Topic: Early gauntlets - what and how?
- Replies: 5
- Views: 789
Re: Early gauntlets - what and how?
Being from a country which did its best to eradicate the species, getting my hands on baleen is of little issue. It is still to be found at flea markets. I just need to build up the courage (and time) to make moulds and start experimenting with hot-forming it. And I expect it might have changed its ...
- Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:08 am
- Forum: Historical Research
- Topic: Early gauntlets - what and how?
- Replies: 5
- Views: 789
Re: Early gauntlets - what and how?
'Cops and canons' or rivet washers Thank you for the full translation of the Paris Armourers' rule 6 Sean! This makes sense and complies with your BL Royal 10 E IV Decretals of Gregory IX dating 1275-1325: The circles shown at the knuckles and at the cuffs (or at the back of very long metacaprals) ...
- Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:32 am
- Forum: Historical Research
- Topic: Early gauntlets - what and how?
- Replies: 5
- Views: 789
Early gauntlets - what and how?
I have an interest in early baleen and iron plate gauntlets. There's no question about their existence in England, the Low Countries, France and Italy at the dawn of the 14th century and I guess they're plausible in the German lands as well as in Scandinavia. The common go-to-style are the Visby one...
- Fri May 14, 2021 3:42 am
- Forum: Historical Research
- Topic: Launching ageofdatini.info
- Replies: 6
- Views: 1452
Re: Launching ageofdatini.info
Great resource! Might I suggest adding the Rothwell Jack to the "Extant Quilted Garments"-section? It is covered in * Elizabeth Coatsworth et al 2017, Clothing the Past Surviving Garments from Early Medieval to Early Modern Western Europe. * Richard Knowles, "A defensive garment in the Chruch at Rot...
- Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:48 pm
- Forum: Historical Research
- Topic: The Chapel de Montauban
- Replies: 8
- Views: 1797
Re: The Chapel de Montauban
I just had to adjust the digitalization of Froissart 's description of the 1392 breakdown and run it through googletranslate. Ainsi que le roi de France chevauchoit en la chaleur du soleil sur un plain et un sablonnis, et faisoit si merveilleusement chaud que devant ni puis, pour celle saison, il n'...
- Mon Feb 15, 2021 4:09 pm
- Forum: Historical Research
- Topic: The Chapel de Montauban
- Replies: 8
- Views: 1797
Re: The Chapel de Montauban
I guess there's no need to stress that this description is fixed in time - this is what the chapel de Montauban looked like in 1446, with ridge or pike(?) and five fingers wide brim. The 1315 rules is a strong indication that already by that date the term was sufficiently generic do include all kett...
- Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:26 am
- Forum: Historical Research
- Topic: Names for the Bollock Dagger
- Replies: 7
- Views: 875
Re: Names for the Bollock Dagger
I had a second look into this. 1) I can only conclude that Niels Just Rasmussen used the danish word testikel dolk as a modern term. In danish research Lars Krants Larsen 2007, " Thorkild Dahls daggerter ", KUML , dismisses this term in favour of nyredolk . At the same time, he seem to misidentify t...
- Wed Dec 02, 2020 7:15 am
- Forum: Historical Research
- Topic: Written Sources for Gambesons/Aketons/Pourpoints 1100-1350
- Replies: 174
- Views: 96652
Re: Written Sources for Gambesons/Aketons/Pourpoints 1100-1350
A couple of helpless translations from rules concerning wambais from Bohemia and Moravia, based on a source Sean already have but which might be new for the rest of us: Rössler, Emil Franz 1845, Deutsche Rechtsdenkmäler aus Böhmen und Mähren; ein Sammlung von Rechtsbüchern, Urkunden und alten Aufzei...
- Wed Dec 02, 2020 5:24 am
- Forum: Historical Research
- Topic: Names for the Bollock Dagger
- Replies: 7
- Views: 875
Re: Names for the Bollock Dagger
Over on MyArmoury, Niels Just Rasmussen cited: Troels Frederik Troels-Lund (1903) Dagligt liv i Norden i det 16de aarhundrede , volume IV, page 159. That book appeared in many versions (even a German translation ) and I can't find volume IV online. Here it is: Troels Frederik Troels-Lund (1903) Dag...
- Fri Nov 27, 2020 9:10 am
- Forum: Historical Research
- Topic: Names for the Bollock Dagger
- Replies: 7
- Views: 875
Re: Names for the Bollock Dagger
Brynolf Hellner mentions a marginal drawing in a late 15th century illustration from Sweden, where the word " stækemætz " (literary "stabbing knife") describes the bullock dagger (left in image), Magnus Erikssons land law, SKB XB 123 (I couldn't verify the source, probably Kungliga biblioteket, B 12...
- Thu Nov 05, 2020 8:04 am
- Forum: Historical Research
- Topic: A Use for Dyed Linen
- Replies: 26
- Views: 17826
Re: A Use for Dyed Linen
Chasuble, Ösmo church, Södermanland, Sweden, late 15th century. Silk damask. Lining of dark blue linen. In Maria Neijmans blog with some nice images here.
- Mon Nov 02, 2020 6:11 am
- Forum: Historical Research
- Topic: Written Sources for Gambesons/Aketons/Pourpoints 1100-1350
- Replies: 174
- Views: 96652
Re: Written Sources for Gambesons/Aketons/Pourpoints 1100-1350
Yes, at first glance that looks like "they shall have gamboised coats or gambesons and iron caps, swords and daggers." I am trying to figure out whether they reprint someone else's transcription or made their own. Lagier states that he redid the transcription due to inconsistencies between Duby and...
- Fri Oct 30, 2020 8:03 am
- Forum: Historical Research
- Topic: Written Sources for Gambesons/Aketons/Pourpoints 1100-1350
- Replies: 174
- Views: 96652
Re: Written Sources for Gambesons/Aketons/Pourpoints 1100-1350
Seven Sheitan in the XIII century European Armour group on facebook brought my attention to a Guerrierisma-article on Abbot Pierre de Chevry's 1274 ordonance for the milita of Saint-Maur-des-Fossées just outside Paris. Those 53 people worth 30 pounds or more are especially relevant in our case: Habe...
- Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:44 am
- Forum: Historical Research
- Topic: Written Sources for Gambesons/Aketons/Pourpoints 1100-1350
- Replies: 174
- Views: 96652
Re: Written Sources for Gambesons/Aketons/Pourpoints 1100-13
The famous scene with Richard's crusaders marching and ignoring the Turks' arrows has either "a vest of thick felt" ( un habit de feutre très-épais ) or "solid iron corselets" over the coats of mail, and the second translation is newer and based on the best manuscript. Thanks for your link and comm...
- Sun Mar 03, 2019 1:56 pm
- Forum: Interpretive Re-creation
- Topic: St. Martin Sleeve on Moselund tunic, = 13th c gamby pattern?
- Replies: 15
- Views: 1870
Re: St. Martin Sleeve on Moselund tunic, = 13th c gamby patt
Thanks for the correction, Sean. Rereading Coatsworth et al 2017, Clothing the Past , I see that I've jumped to conclusions based on their reference to some dispute concerning the quilting of the Charles de Blois pourpoint, and realize the "dispute" is a reenactor quibble only: The pourpoint is quil...
- Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:07 am
- Forum: Interpretive Re-creation
- Topic: St. Martin Sleeve on Moselund tunic, = 13th c gamby pattern?
- Replies: 15
- Views: 1870
Re: St. Martin Sleeve on Moselund tunic, = 13th c gamby patt
I've done a project like yours, Mega, and run into a few relevant challenges. But first: Cotton batting is more like a layer of thin felt, not at all what we seem to find in the extant examples. It is a lot like what we have in the gold Charles du Blois pourpoint, the Pandolfo III Malatesta farsetto...
- Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:04 am
- Forum: Historical Research
- Topic: Written Sources for Gambesons/Aketons/Pourpoints 1100-1350
- Replies: 174
- Views: 96652
Re: Written Sources for Gambesons/Aketons/Pourpoints 1100-13
The dating of (the relevant part of) the King Sverre's Saga should be corrected to first quarter of the 13th Century. I'll get back on the rest.
- Sat Jan 26, 2019 7:22 am
- Forum: Interpretive Re-creation
- Topic: St. Martin Sleeve on Moselund tunic, = 13th c gamby pattern?
- Replies: 15
- Views: 1870
Re: St. Martin Sleeve on Moselund tunic, = 13th c gamby patt
Another reconstruction of the St. Maurice sleeve by Cité d'antan (also a (allmost) straight tube body, though).
- Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:14 am
- Forum: Historical Research
- Topic: Written Sources for Gambesons/Aketons/Pourpoints 1100-1350
- Replies: 174
- Views: 96652
Re: Written Sources for Gambesons/Aketons/Pourpoints 1100-13
The probably earliest reference to panzer as textile armour in norse Sources are the King Sverris saga , written down in two parts, the first part in the late 12th century, the second in the first quarter of the 13th Century. It is referred to allready by Hewitt 1855 p 111 : "In King Sverrer's Saga,...
- Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:02 am
- Forum: Historical Research
- Topic: Written Sources for Gambesons/Aketons/Pourpoints 1100-1350
- Replies: 174
- Views: 96652
Re: Written Sources for Gambesons/Aketons/Pourpoints 1100-13
More sources, mainly from Meyrick: Statutes of Frejus 1233, a french mediterranean town: " Peditum armatum intelligimus armatum scuto et propuncto , seu auspergoto et cofa, seu capello ferreo et cargan vel sine cargan ," transl: "We understand by armed infantry those who are armed with shields and p...
- Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:38 am
- Forum: Historical Research
- Topic: Written Sources for Gambesons/Aketons/Pourpoints 1100-1350
- Replies: 174
- Views: 96652
Re: Written Sources for Gambesons/Aketons/Pourpoints 1100-13
French accounts 1268, Computis Baillivorum Franciæ , " Expensæ pro cendatis, bourra ad Gambesones , Tapetis, ... " Meyrick's transl: "Money paid for Sandal, for flocks for Gambesons , for embroidery, ..." William the Breton relates a skirmish at Mante, where Sir William de Barres encountered with th...
- Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:00 am
- Forum: Historical Research
- Topic: Written Sources for Gambesons/Aketons/Pourpoints 1100-1350
- Replies: 174
- Views: 96652
Re: Written Sources for Gambesons/Aketons/Pourpoints 1100-13
Great resource! Thank you for your work, Sean. One more word to add to the mix: in Norse you can say vapentröja for a coat-armour. In one of Dan's threads someone found a German text from Oldenburg which states that a militiaman must have "[...] zinen helm ofte ysern hut, zine yseren huven, zine tro...
- Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:13 am
- Forum: Historical Research
- Topic: A Use for Dyed Linen
- Replies: 26
- Views: 17826
Re: A Use for Dyed Linen
Red linen lining is found in a 14th century brigantine fragment in Schloss Tirol published by Beatrix Nutz 2015 CT8920: fragment with outer cover of yellow silk, middle layer of white linen and inner layer of red (!) linen. Both linen layers are tabby, while the silk is samite. Threadcount is 17-19 ...
- Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:51 am
- Forum: Interpretive Re-creation
- Topic: Thinking Out Loud: Bocksten Cloaks
- Replies: 15
- Views: 1110
Re: Thinking Out Loud: Bocksten Cloaks
Elina (Neulakko) recently hypothesed that Nockert was wrong after all in removing the red V from the cloak and placing it on the hood: "Now I am inclined to think that V would, after all, belong on the cloak. I believe that had enforced the shoulder seam opening at the side where the cloak was open....
- Thu May 24, 2018 5:02 pm
- Forum: Historical Research
- Topic: Sverris saga
- Replies: 2
- Views: 1117
Re: Sverris saga
Because it is not among Snorri Sturluson's sagas, the most popular compilation, but written a few years earlier by abbot Karl Jonsson. I guess Snorri left it out because it was allready recently popularized, or because it was too close to his own time for comfort? The even later Haakon Haakonson's s...