The Armour Archive

Owen

It was a little bit of both- the State proved the armor, but the miles were responsible for paying for it with deductions from their pay. I recall reading examples where the military had to stop soldiers from selling their gear and replacing it from the central store, because they could buy it for l...

Owen

Steve- segmentata stopped being used by around the end of the 2nd century, well before the fall. It didn't last long, really. Mail kept right on, and lamellar and scale armors became common, especially in the east.

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Owen
"Death is but a doorway-
Here, let me hold that for you"

Owen

The only problem I see with kettle hats is pretty much the same as I have with my Roman helmet. The brim, like the neckguard on mine, will tend to catch blows such that, while in reality it has just saved your life, you have to take the shot as a kill when other wise it would not have been! Yours lo...

Owen

Steve- my point was, plate appears to have gone out long before Rome fell, so it was more likely due to changes in logistics, training, and fighting methods, than unavailablity of metal. The plates themselves aren't that big, so it is still easier to make than later full plate armor. Also, as you kn...

Owen

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/ Also, the plans are in the plans section here. The girdle plates are suspended on three leather strips on each side, the shoulder and collar plates on strips as well. This makes it flexible. Some of the segmentata out of India recently had them on solid pieces of leathe...

Owen

Then there was the time my old household drove down to Gulf Wars (22 hour drive). During one of the field battles, most of them were killed in the initial charge, leaving me with a polearm and my friend Alexandre with sword and shield. It was a mess, we were standing in the middle of a swirl, and I ...

Owen

Mail takes MORE metal to make than segmentata does, not less. Iron was not a problem to obtain, expensive, but available. Also, lorica segmentata appears to have been phased out well before the collapse of the Empire, probably by the end of the 2nd or beginning of the 3rd century. Decentralization o...

Owen

Rome used mail fo most of it's history, even during the relatively brief period when the lorica segmentata was in use (only ~125-150 years, out of 700+ they used mail). Segmentata required more centralized, highly skilled manufacture, and was not as field-repairable; a broken part meant that the sui...

Owen

But, they wore them in Braveheart? Isn't that good enough documentation?

Don't hurt me!

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Owen
"Death is but a doorway-
Here, let me hold that for you"

Owen

My spiffy Roman helmet started life as a pair of his helmet halves. I'd hate to think what it would have cost, had that not been the case. Several friends of mine fight in rigs that started as kits from him. His work will be sorely missed, for both the quality and the cost effectiveness. -----------...

Owen

Mordreth- I have no great desire to change anything. I think the current sytem has an advantage of being simple, which many proposed changes are not. I originally was simply pointing out that we already know that some of what we do isn't historical based, for various reasons, and that I didn't think...

Owen

I deleted my previous post because I had missed the fact that you already had a helm. That makes it easier. I agree with Tybolt, and the GAA CoP kit is a great deal, but don't bother getting it with the rivets and such, just the plates, and get yourself some leather. I bought the leather for my part...

Owen

Pretty. Girls love a guy in uniform, maybe you could have wandered around asking them to help find your besagews?

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Owen
"Death is but a doorway-
Here, let me hold that for you"

Owen

Sir Richard- I think it was well written, actually. If anything, perhaps an option that would permit CA, but with more restrictions, to cover that gap. Some people did say that they would prefer 1, but that they didn't feel it was realistic. Matbe some of them would prefer yet another alternative? I...

Owen

Mutt-that's just COLD! At a war practice some years ago, I was fighting spear. My unit wrapped around the end of the enemy line, and we proceeded to envelope them. Their back ranks turned to face us, but it got ugly fast. As we picked them apart, their line got thinner and thinner, until not only wa...

Owen

Mordreth, we have EVERY single shot that lands cleanly kill. That is what we are doing "wrong", in this case. It has nothing to do with whether or not it ever happened, or how often, but that we do it all the time.

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Owen
"Death is but a doorway-
Here, let me hold that for you"

Owen

One shot kills were almost certainly not the norm. If they were, why wear armor? If a single blow would incapacitate you, even through the armor, what is the point of wearing it, when all it does is slow you down but not actually protect you? Did they occur? Possibly, perhaps even probably. But I se...

Owen

I think the strips of cloth idea has merit- maybe as a replacement or adjunct to the Queen's Favors that get passed out? Even if we each have to provide our own, I'm not buying the idea that a poor college kid couldn't afford a strip of cloth. I, for one, don't want to wear a tabard. It would be inc...

Owen

Ok, now I understand. Don't agree, but I understand.

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Owen
"Death is but a doorway-
Here, let me hold that for you"

Owen

Jean-Paul- I get that you don't like florentine, what I meant was, what did my post have to do with banning it? I'm not even in favor of banning madus, so I'm confused how my comment led to yours.

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Owen
"Death is but a doorway-
Here, let me hold that for you"

Owen

We already know that much of the construct is wrong- one-shot kills, swords cutting mail, indestructable shields, etc. Improvements can be made, but I think a major overhaul of the system would be pointless.

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Owen
"Death is but a doorway-
Here, let me hold that for you"

Owen

Giles- I wish we could come up with a simple way to give an advantage to heavier armor. It works well in Markland, but the calibration is generally lighter already, and the weapons are padded. Lighter armor would no longer be seen as a "sports" edge, but simply one side of the light and fast/heavy a...

Owen

Jean-Paul
Where does "Right. Therefore, ban florentine." come from, based on what I posted?

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Owen
"Death is but a doorway-
Here, let me hold that for you"

Owen

Cedric- yeah, but sometimes that Peer is a royal ass in the real world, too.

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Owen
"Death is but a doorway-
Here, let me hold that for you"

Owen

Madus are an artifact of the combat system. Besides, precisely how would you go about banning them? If you ban them by name, I could just make a short polearm. If you ban them with a basket hilt in the middle, you'll just create more work for the gauntlet makers. Frankly, they make no less sense tha...

Owen

We've done to death argueing the merits of the various groups playing these games, but I realized that I had no idea how some of the other groups (besides SCA and Markland) judge their combat. I don't want to have a fight here, just find out how the fights work, especially among the steel groups. --...

Owen

And, so far, none of the chivalry that responded on their thread want to ban it. Hmmm...

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Owen
"Death is but a doorway-
Here, let me hold that for you"

Owen

Well, at least among the unbelted, it appears that there is NOT a vast majority that wants to get rid of CA. Quite the opposite, in fact, only 6 of 38 replies. So much for "everyone hates it".

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Owen
"Death is but a doorway-
Here, let me hold that for you"

Owen

By that logic, the marshals, waterbearers, and chiurgeons should also be armored. Scouts, unlike archers, are non-combatants.

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Owen
"Death is but a doorway-
Here, let me hold that for you"

Owen

Sarnac- how will this affect other issues, such as here in the East, where archers are already heavies, but must yield and cannot be hit if they haven't dropped the bow by the time an opponant gets within weapon range?

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Owen
"Death is but a doorway-
Here, let me hold that for you"

Owen

The tip of my spear has "Ave-Vale" on it.

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Owen
"Death is but a doorway-
Here, let me hold that for you"

Owen

Owynn- then there are those like me who think that, as we aren't really professional soldiers, it's rather hard to learn who's who, especially at large events like Pennsic, and I don't think I'd like the way it would look if we all had to wear a kingdom tabard. I also don't think you need to demoniz...

Owen

3 or 4

I lean towards 3, as I feel it would recognize the SCA as it already is.

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Owen
"Death is but a doorway-
Here, let me hold that for you"

Owen

Well, padded polearm and mace shots feel different from, say a sword impact, and thrusts feel differently too. Do you mean the slicing action of a draw cut from a katana? No matter the weapon, draw cuts don't do much against mail or plate, so I don't see a problem or unfairness there. --------------...

Owen

Jentien- only 6"? I'd think the female fighters would just laugh, if he's able to fit inside...

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Owen
"Death is but a doorway-
Here, let me hold that for you"

How do other groups (non-SCA) call blows?