The Armour Archive

Josh W

That plate didnt look like it was hit just 2 times, it looks like it was hit over 20 times. That is true. In looking at that photo, I hadn't noticed that before, so intent was I on the arrow that actually did penetrate. It does indeed appear that the wanna-be breastplate was shot unsuccessfully an ...

Josh W

The first pic is of tassets on a cuirass in Bern, right? IIRC, they're dated to the 1460s. The tassets in the second pic are on Elector Friedrich's harness in the Waffensammlung(?). IIRC, they're dated to c.1450. Those in the third pic look like the ones on Galeazzo D'Arco's harness in Churburg, and...

Josh W

BUMP

Does anyone have any idea how many joules one of those jousters generates on impact?

Josh W

Certain kettle hats.

Josh W

In eleven years of pretty steady SCA combat, the only injury I've ever received (apart from a few bruises) was a broken my thumb earlier this year, and that was my own fault for using substandard gauntlet-thumbs.

Josh W

Is that the same effigy that Tobias Capwell's harness was based on?

Josh W

I've got access to Kansas State University Library's copy of The Knight and the Blast Furnace just two blocks from here. Why they have a copy, I don't know, but I'm grateful that they do. The longbow guys reject Williams' findings on the subject in that book. Apparently, Williams used too light a bo...

Josh W

I am pretty sure that a lance, locked into a lance rest, being held by a 300+lb (armour and man) jouster on a 1800lb horse going about 22mph would create more blunt trauma than said arrow - if this is true, a whole lot of us jousters are dead and just don't know it. Can anyone calculate the force i...

Josh W

Josh, are you planning on picking a fight with some longbow men??? I would assume once you get to 3mm in high carbon steel heat treated you'd be ok but why the suddon attempt to up your armour? You'd likely be safe from 80-90 percent of all arrows. No, I'm not picking a fight with any longbowmen. I...

Josh W

Josh, I would contact Eric D. Schmidt (he is sometimes on myarmoury) and see if you can get in contact with Mike Loades through him. Mike seems to have a pretty good grasp of this issue. Further, hit up some of the armourers directly (McPherson comes to mind, as well as Jeff Hedgecock) and run past...

Josh W

I like the shovel pic. To me, it demonstrates that well-hardened armour of a decent thickness does stand a chance against those arrows. I also suspect that the breastplate in the first series of pics would have stood a better chance if it had been 'dished' properly. IIRC, that was 30 yards he said h...

Josh W

But that's just what they're claiming. Apparently, one of their massive, half-inch diameter war arrows does pack more of a punch than many handgun rounds, at least inside of 300 yards or so. For reference, here are some photos from them: m m The fellow says that was a 120-pound bow shot at 2mm high-...

Josh W

What makes you specify cae hardened mild steel for this? Stupidity. Apparently I am misinformed about medieval steel-hardening techniques and need a remedial course in metallurgical terminology. I just got off the phone with Patrick Thaden. He says that there is little evidence for case-hardening. ...

Josh W

I ask this because I now find myself convinced that 120lb+ bows could indeed penetrate some pretty thick and hard steel. I've got a bunch of English archers on another forum who are convinced that they can punch a hole in even 3mm hardened steel.

Josh W

Not sure about the 9mm.

I did shoot at (and failed to penetrate) a flat piece of 14ga hot-rolled from ten yards with a .22 and a .25 pistol a couple weeks ago. I actually lost money on it; I thought at least one bullet would get through.

Josh W

Form and material.

I suspect a 3mm breastplate of case-hardened mild steel would do the trick, but I have no access to a bow of sufficient poundage to prove this.

Josh W

How would one go about making the most accurate replica possible of a late 15th century breastplate "of proof" that would resist bodkin-headed arrows from even a 190-pound draw weight longbow?

How thick should it be? How hard? Single-piece or with plackart?

Josh W

I don't recall the figure of a hundred pounds being given in the program. IIRC, it was pretty good.

Josh W

This needs bumped. I'm having a few good arguments with longbow fanboys on a couple other forums, and wish to point them to this discussion. The footage of the breastplate resisting even that high-poundage crossbow quarrel makes me shiver with delight. That's how proper armour handles an arrow! Rand...

Josh W

I had those on VHS before my house burned down...

Josh W

Not from my experience. They remember the guy who wins the most... BS. They remember the guy who looks nicest. Schoolteachers in the crowd don't walk up to the poly-cotton tabard guy and ask him to come in and talk to her class of fifth-graders about medieval warfare; they ask the guy in the real a...

Josh W

Certainly, I try to emphasize authenticity over sport as much as I can, but obviously some concessions have to be made. For instance, I have modern soles on my turnshoes. I hope they really are as unobtrusive as I think they are. I also wear a plastic cup under my hosen since my fauld and tassets do...

Josh W

brookswift wrote:Here is the west (and the mists specifically), arm hunting is considered to be very poor form.

Poor form?

How did it come to be so perceived in the West? Here in Calontir, we have no such tradition.

Josh W

Extremely spiffy.

How thick was the steel you used?

Josh W

Thanks for the replies. Per, I had no idea that the frontal faulds were so thick. Very cool. But were all faulds so thick? Audax, do you have a copy of Edge & Paddock's Arms and Armour of the Medieval Knight ? If you do, or have access to a copy, check the 15th century chapter for an illustration of...

Josh W

Thank you very much for going to the trouble to provide that for us, Wade.

Josh W

m I took this pair of old shoes I made to the local shoe repair guy (who happens to be very well-versed in the history of his craft). I had him put nice modern soles on them for SCA combat. And like Bryce, I use them with arch support inserts. They are light and extremely comfortable, and are simply...

Josh W

Thank you very much, Wade; you totally rock. I am deeply interested in what Tom's (where is he these days? I miss his presence on here...) micrometer shows. Where can I get one of those? Wander over and measure it all you want. I may take you up on that the next time I'm on the East Coast. I haven't...

Josh W

Specifically, I'm looking for what a could have sworn was a thread on the Archive in which Jeff Hedgecock related having personally examined the Avant suit, and mentioned some thickness figures for the breastplate. I've done everything I can with the search function here, and have had no luck. Maybe...

Josh W

I'm not convinced that the historical record completely supports the notion that arrows unequivocally pierced plate at Agincourt. Doesn't Jean Juvenal des Ursins relate that ""The French were scarcely harmed by the arrow fire of the English because they were well armed?" Yes, he does say that; as I...

Josh W

I remember reading a post by Jeff Hedgecock from a few years back that mentioned breastplate thicknesses in 15th century Italian armour, possibly the 'Avant' Harness in particular. Searching this site isn't turning up that conversation, though. Does anyone else remember what he said? Does anyone els...

Josh W

Josh: You need to read Cliff's posts more carefully. What are you saying that I missed in his posts? I do believe that the vast majority of arrows loosed at Agincourt did NOT penetrate armor enough to cause a serious wound. Some missed entirely of course, but of those that hit, many would have fail...

Josh W

Blackbow, I'm not buying that longbow arrows pierced plate more often than not. Not even Cliff Rogers thinks that, QED above. We have surviving pieces of armour that bear the marks of other weapons--bullets, poleaxes, etc. Where is all the plate that should have been holed by the mighty longbow? A p...

Josh W

I'm ordering mine tomorrow.

How's the detail on the 15th century stuff? I'm hoping for good pics of Italian backplates and gauntlets in particular.

And figures for weight and thickness, but that might be asking too much...

Josh W

I echo Brian, though I don't know about the Stibbert. The Royal Armouries have a few neat things I'd like to see, too.

Arrow-proof armour

Thickness of 15th century Italian armour