The Armour Archive

Sean M

The "teardrop" shaped armscyes are also the kind we see on regular surcotes in that manuscript. I am thinking that speaking of "quilted cotes" and "quilted surcotes" could be a good way to talk about linen armour without the problems where the City of London thinks a gambeson is a sleeveless overgar...

Sean M

Thank you, Sean! I was able to bind Victor G's book online, but gave up when the image was not under "armure" I am puzzled why it is on the page with AQUAMANILE too. Laying out a book in the 1880s was a scissors-and-glue affair, we are lucky that he included this drawing. I am glad it is of interes...

Sean M

Sean, Can you post a pic of V.G's image?.. or a link to where it might be found. I'm interested in seeing old representations of the helmet.. in case there is anything that has changed. Found it! Volume A-H, page 40 https://archive.org/stream/glossairearcho01gayv#page/40/mode/2up https://bookandswo...

Sean M

Do you think the breaths would have originally been hot-punched? Someone on MyArmoury points out that this could be one reason that sword pommels are not always centred on the tang and in the exact same plane as the blade. Mac, I am glad that this is moving into the finishing stages! When I was look...

Sean M

Thanks! I don't know Old Norse literature at all, I have just read a few sagas in translation. Having the earliest sources from Scandinavia is very helpful. I like the idea that the hiup in Sverri's Saga is a jupe in the sense of a "Saracen-style surcote." The King's Mirror describes the gambeson ov...

Sean M

By the 14th century, the Fréres Bonis in Montalban, Languedoc, and the notaries of Rimini also preferred words in the jupe family like zuparello for what a 15th century Englishman would call a doublet (although North Italians sometimes write farsetto or diplois ). The problem is that I don't know of...

Sean M

Thanks Ernst! I also added an entry from the expenses of King John of England for 1209: pro vij ulnis linee tele ad faciendum j alcotonem ... et pro cotone ad illum alcotonem (For 7 ells of linen cloth for making an aketon, and for cotton for that aketon) I would bet a nice new 20 Euro note against ...

Sean M

Thanks Ernst, keep them coming. Iberia is another area where anyone with a bit of Old Spanish and Latin and a friendly reference librarian could turn up things which those 19th century antiquarians in London and Paris did not know. You have pointed out that some of the first pictures of aketons, fro...

Sean M

One more word to add to the mix: in Norse you can say vapentröja for a coat-armour. In one of Dan's threads someone found a German text from Oldenburg which states that a militiaman must have "[...] zinen helm ofte ysern hut, zine yseren huven, zine troyen , zine armeleden, zine vlekken, sinen kragh...

Sean M

The Gebrüder Grimm have an example of Panzer from Erec by Hartmann von Aue (Wikipedia gives the date 1185). ieglîches harnasch was guot, ein panzier unde ein îsenhuot, (a unde ein kiule wol beslagen. Erec 2349; "Such a harness was good/a Panzer and an iron hat/and a kiule well struck." ir ieglîch he...

Sean M

Ok, I will add the Fitz Marmaduke inventory (lots of details) and the 1322 regulation from London on Armour in Texts. That is another one where it would be good for someone like Randall M. to look at the manuscript and see what the French says and whether there is anything else interesting just befo...

Sean M

"FWIW, in Osprey's Warrior Series: 25, Italian Militiaman 1260-1392, Nicolle cites examples (pp.54-55) of panceria and gambiera (gambesons) in 1288 in Bologna. Also in the 1280s, King Charles of Naples has crossbowmen equipped with giubetta (small jupons) and perpunto (pourpoints). A 1283 document f...

Sean M

Tom, I am just cleaning up after other people who found the references and had a first try at translating them. Ernst, I added the chronicle of the dukes of Normandy and a passage of Thomas of Kent which I found in the Anglo-Norman Dictionary http://www.anglo-norman.net/index.shtml They use the head...

Sean M

A few years ago people found a pile of sources for the thread on Scottish jacks . I don't think there is a handy list of texts mentioning quilted armour in western Europe in the 12th and 13th centuries. I NCIPIT ROTULUM FONTIUM GAMBESONIBUS P ARS PRIMA (before the Fourth Crusade) Wace, Roman de Rou ...

Sean M

Someone published all the mail in Veste Coburg a few years ago, I don't remember how old the oldest piece is. Looking for the 14th century documents which give the weight in pounds of specific mail garments might be more helpful, since like Dan says mail was used until the links were worn too thin t...

Sean M

Ernst also found strange patterned garments on soldiers in two 12th/13th-century MS: the Ingeborg Psalter and a Bible moralisée ( ÖNB Han Cod.2554 http://manuscripta.at/m1/hs_detail.php?ID=11688). Later in the middle ages and in the early modern period, furs were reserved for borders and linings (ok...

Sean M

Ein wambeis wart ime gesuocht Von einem buckeram blanc, Einer spannen von der gürtel lanc, 865 Under sînen halsperc . A gambeson was found for him, Of a buckram white, A span long from the belt, Under his hauberk. A span (ie. the greatest distance you can cover with your little finger and your thum...

Sean M

The Gebrüder Grimm have another poem from around 1200 in their entry for Wams (n.) . I think that Bertus could handle this better than I can. dô zôch er aller êrste an (there he put on first of all) ein wambes von buggeran. (a gambeson of buckram) dô hieʒ er im reichen einen vilz weichen (a very sof...

Sean M

If the poignez de manches are cuffs, does it also follow that the collars are also attached rather than separate pieces? Good question! I wish I had taken a semester of Old French, but I think in these texts they usually use à when two things are made separately then put together (gorgerètes à baci...

Sean M

Mart found Item j. jakke of blakke lynen clothe stuffyd with mayle. in either the Paston Letters or the inventory of the effects of Sir John Fastolfe. Black linen cloth for a jack could be the kind painted with oil and soot (Lübeck), or daubed with pitch (John Major), not dyed, though. Edit: its pag...

Sean M

In 1462, the tailors of Bordeaux agreed that in all pourpoints of silk, the valets and the master tailors should be held to put a toile of buckram of the same colour next to the (silk) cloth. 10. Item. Qu'à tout pourpoint de soie, les valets et maîtres tailleurs soient tenus de mettre une toile de b...

Sean M

Here is one more courtesy of Le Rozier des Guerres http://lerozier.free.fr/statuts.htm#pourpointiers (...) 2. Item, et aussy que les pugniez et colez desdis pourpoins, se on les fait de drap, soient de noeuf drap et doublez de drap noeuf, bon et souffisant, et que lesdits pourpoins soient bien taill...

Sean M

I wonder if the squires made their mothers cut out the enseigne or exemplaire where it was galling their tender flesh? Tina Anderlini is reachable on FB and in 3-5 years when I have time for more 'academic' medieval writing it might be good to get in touch with her. I would like to publish a transla...

Sean M

Also, item 13 of the rule of the cousturiers, pourpointiers, and gipponiers of Troyes from 1400 is similar: (13) Item. Qui vouldra faire ouvrage trait de laine, faire le pourra, mais qu'elle soit fillée & mis l'enseigne au colet du garnement; & qui fera le contraire, il paiera dix Solz Tournois à ap...

Sean M

Item, que l’on ne puisse desormès traire parmi collètes de cotes ne parmi poingnex de manches, se ce n’est de coton. Item, that from now on ( desormès ) no-one shall be allowed to draw across/through collars of coats or cuffs ( poignets "wrists") of sleeves, unless it is of cotton. traire seems to ...

Sean M

Yeah, I need to look up medieval Italian phonology and Italian orthography, but I think that <çu> <zu> <giu> and <ju> are all variations of the same sound depending on local pronunciation and writing habits. They still have a word in the jubba family in Tiroler Tracht , these days the juppe or juppa...

Sean M

Mart, I have been thinking about this ... the Itinerarium Peregrinorum uses the word pourpoint for a story set in 1187, and jupon was the term borrowed from Arabic, so digging around under those words might turn up a few more 12th/13th century citations. As English speakers we tend to look for aketo...

Sean M

In these discussion, the possibility of kettle hats with a 'standing camail' (vs. bascinets with 'hanging camails' like the Lyle bascinet) has come up. - Une colerette appellée faux camail de fer ou d'acier, garnier de courroyes de cuir ou tresses de chanvre garnies de fer ou de léton, garni d'étoff...

Sean M

That looks like an illustration from a book by Osprey publishing. Have you borrowed it or bought it? They are not expensive and will have a Page saying what that painting is inspired by.

Sean M

All the layers are cut and the four quarters of the facing have been sewn together. The habotai lining will be split above and below the waist to reduce stretching ... I think that the Austrian tailors' books show this with dashed lines. https://bookandsword.files.wordpress.com/2019/01/lining_button...

Sean M

I just checked Tina Anderlini's article on the shirt of St. Louis, which briefly covers the aketon of his sister Isabelle of France. It is sleeveless but has rectangular front and back panels widened by trapezoidal gores at both sides. The armholes are curved and run through the front panel, across ...

Sean M

I also agree that you probably want a round armhole and a curved sleeve cap like the Moselund tunic to look like the Maciejowski Bible. The body should be about half your breast measurement wide at the shoulder with expansions under the armpit. I wish I knew which guys in Maciejowski are wearing an ...

Sean M

Edit: So you want a "strong coat" with full-length sleeves not the sleeveless surcoat things? http://manuscriptminiatures.com/media/manuscriptminiatures.com/original/118-2.jpg When I look at this plate in the Maciejowski bible, I am intrigued that there are some pleats above the belt in the "strong ...

Sean M

This is fabulous, gentlemen. I had to stop doing a lot of leatherwork due to tendonitis, and am now just HELLA CURIOUS what I could achieve in leather using the same principles. ::wild applause:: Russ, that reminds me. I do not have your contact information and was unable to reach you when I wanted...

Sean M

I have been working on the toile, expanding the armhole to allow for the wider sleeve. A skirt two thirds of the height tape long just brushes my knees, so I will add another two fingers to be safe. I also think I should allow a bit extra at the front opening even for buttons sewn to the edge not th...

Re: Questions about Gambesons, Circa 1200

Re: The Palazzo Ducale bascinet.

Re: The Palazzo Ducale bascinet.

Re: The Palazzo Ducale bascinet.

Re: Written Sources for Gambesons/Aketons/Pourpoints 1100-13

Re: Written Sources for Gambesons/Aketons/Pourpoints 1100-13

Re: Written Sources for Gambesons/Aketons/Pourpoints 1100-13

Re: Written Sources for Gambesons/Aketons/Pourpoints 1100-13

Re: Written Sources for Gambesons/Aketons/Pourpoints 1100-13

Re: Written Sources for Gambesons/Aketons/Pourpoints 1100-13

Re: Written Sources for Gambesons/Aketons/Pourpoints 1100-13

Re: Written Sources for Gambesons/Aketons/Pourpoints 1100-13

Re: Written Sources for Gambesons/Aketons/Pourpoints 1100-13

Written Sources for Gambesons/Aketons/Pourpoints 1100-1350

Re: Mail Ring Thickness?

Re: Three questions on the Bayeux Tapestry.

Re: Interesting Armour Quotes from "The Crown" c. 1230

Re: Questions about Gambesons, Circa 1200

Re: Gambeson collars and mittens

Re: A Use for Dyed Linen

Re: A Use for Dyed Linen

Re: Gambeson collars and mittens

Re: Gambeson collars and mittens

Re: Gambeson collars and mittens

Re: Gambeson collars and mittens

Re: Questions about Gambesons, Circa 1200

Re: Questions about Gambesons, Circa 1200

Re: Discussion of extant mail standards

Re: 14th century russian kit research

Re: A Coat with a Globlulose Breast

Re: St. Martin Sleeve on Moselund tunic, = 13th c gamby patt

Re: St. Martin Sleeve on Moselund tunic, = 13th c gamby patt

Re: St. Martin Sleeve on Moselund tunic, = 13th c gamby patt

Re: Breastplate from a can?

Re: A Coat with a Globlulose Breast