The Armour Archive

wcallen

Shawn is right. I have seen completely mangled articulations still work just fine.
My old legs did all sorts of odd things and twisted sideways. They still move fine.

Wade

wcallen

As long as we don't get to many people, it is basically open. The main idea is to study and discuss authentic pieces of armour. After that, there is usually discussion of how this applies and how you might do something. I am always happy to talk about armour.

Wade

wcallen

not sure what you meant but clearly you misquoted as 3/16" is, i think, close to 6 or 7 ga which i doubt anyone ever tried to work into a helm. clearly impossible to work starting with, as you state, 12ga as that would only be slightly smaller than taking the 12ga and folding in half. regards ...

wcallen

Worst case, we could part you up the road at the church. It has really clean access in and out. I don't know what the turning radius and stuff on that thing are. FedEx trucks can get in here. I have had tandem trucks drop gravel out here. I bet that there is no way you could turn around in our turni...

wcallen

I don't have any of these really low-end splints. I have played with some. I have elbows that are similar from the same period. How far do they wrap around? It varies. Yea, thanks you say. I have seen anywhere from it doesn't wrap around at all - I mean at all. Ends at the point. I have one like To ...

wcallen

I have what may be a relatively uncommon perspective on this. I fought pretty actively in the late 1970s and into the early-mid 1980s. I have then mostly been completely out of things until very recently when I was silly enough to show up to a few practices. I mainly fought in the middle. I have bee...

wcallen

German/Italian export ones (the ones with rivets or bolts) cover less underneath the lower. But they still aren't cut out to end up with 1 layer most everywhere.

The goal here seems to have been to add protection, not to lighten the armour.

Wade

wcallen

There are significant differences in the ways these breastplates are supposed to work. The 'riveted' ones are sometimes rivited, and other times they are actually bolted together. Often with more than one hole so that they can be somewhat adjusted. When they are bolted the center does not slide up a...

wcallen

Answers from the bottom up. Clang - Black and White. OK. At one point I had almost none, but now I seem to have some. If we want to keep it simple on those bits, the breast and back (they really are a pair, not associated) in peascod form is a really nice example. Nice and thick in the breast, thin ...

wcallen

I am really not active in the SCA, so I don't have any plans to attend Twelfth Night. I have attended something like 5 events in the last 10 years. Most of them were Universities. If you are interested in armour (esp. if you are interested in 16th century armour) and building it just start with this...

wcallen

OK, Christmas is over. People are probably getting back into the normal routine. It is still cold, so maybe there are people that don't have outdoor events to go to. I have done a few different study sessions of pieces from my collection in the past. These URLs show the list of items in the last 2. ...

wcallen

That one really does seem to be 6-1 in the collar. That seems to be a real rarity. Most of the ones I have seen just thicken the rings in the collar but stay 4-1. That is certainly what was done on the collar on my partial shirt-bit. m My only collar is later and not all that nice. Just very fine ri...

wcallen

Since people are talking about copper roofing nails and normal (galvanized), I always use the steel ones. They are harder than rivets, but no big deal. They still cut with a nipper and pien. It really is worth including a couple of sources of actual rivets too. I got my last round of them from R J L...

wcallen

Assuming Gaston doesn't mind - that is a good start. Steal/borrow/copy with reference as much as he is willing to let you have. The ideas all apply to other types of rivets too. I have done the same process using tinner's rivets (basically common nails) and headed them on the outside. I did this whe...

wcallen

personally, I like the garage shop solution. That is certainly where I ended up. Others have come up on the other side. There are professional armourers. But it isn't for the faint of heart. I would say it is kind of like being a priest or minister, or a linebacker. . For some people, it is all that...

wcallen

I am no longer a professional armourer, but I was. That might actually be a good viewpoint. My partner and I started an armoury in High School. We worked after that for several years at various levels of intensity. I was only really supporting myself as an armourer for 2 years, and summers between c...

wcallen

My answer (as always) is 'it depends'. Straps - I use whatever I have lying around that seems right at the time. From memory... 8oz? maybe? I tend to do small straps thinner than big ones (vambrace doesn't need as much as a breastplate). At least well oiled. I use real rivets, but I also use nails. ...

wcallen

And Steve would know.... I am betting you don't care as much about speed of production as he did, but the idea is the same. I would start by playing with some real rings. Find the ones that have the profile you want. Then start playing with filing some cheap tongs. They likely wont' be right the fir...

wcallen

My feeling is that authentic mail was done both ways. Relatively consistent rings, and varying wire thickness. My impression is that the overall size of the rings is relatively consistent. The thickness of the wire varies more. I haven't done extensive measurements on my pieces, but this shirt certa...

wcallen

Only loosely related, but if you happen to be in Baltimore on the 3rd weekend in March, wander by the Cow Palace a the Fairgrounds (Timmonium) and see various things including whatever I happen to have at my table. I am at J-29. There are a few other people interested in armour there too. That is th...

wcallen

What "can" be used and what people will be comfortable with using may be different. A lot of what most of us do is based on "that is the way it is done" instead of real facts. Assuming: Your articulations actually work. (not just seem to work due to slop) Your users are willing t...

wcallen

Just to be annoying...

All of the brig 'nayles' I have played with seem to have solid heads. But the idea seems like it could be fun.

Wade

wcallen

I have some minimal connection to original pieces. Mainly later than most of you are interested in. From what I have seen, 1/8" is about right for the shank. The heads change over the years. Mac and I had a lot of fun discussing the shape of the rivets he had made (before they were made). I see...

wcallen

Take a look at the bottom of this thread:

http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/ ... highlight=

I shot some details of the elbows and knees.

I also discussed how I got the elbows and knees to stay in place.

Wade

wcallen

1/8" x 3/8". Standard rivet. That is what I used for my first helmet 30 years ago, and what I generally use now. I have bowed to the pressure and used 3/16" for armour. I have also seen what happens after 10 years of abuse. Esp. in things like Sir Fern's legs... The rivets are so soli...

wcallen

I can reinforce some of the previous statements. The #13 doesn't actually cover your spine anyway. Spine armour is highly over-rated in the SCA. I have fought with it and without and was plenty happy without. The only good reason to wear the silly back armour the SCA requires is so that they let you...

wcallen

Yes, please. Not another #13.

A nice globose, or covered breastplate would be really nice. Lots of nice bits to go with them (like the very composed bits in the previous picture).

Wade

wcallen

I don't like the typologies either (as Chef said, 'the way of Bashford Dean'). There are lots of styles of things that just happen and overlap. If you want to see some examples of several different styles of breastplate with approximate dates from 1540-1640 without all of the rest of the harnesses c...

wcallen

My opinion is that there is a very logical reason. They had much lower quality control on the steel than we are used to. They tried to do what they could, but sometimes they got what they got. A general read of "The Knight and the Blast Furnace" seems to confirm this to me. Really good stu...

wcallen

Definitely one modern gauntlet. Both pauldrons are real, but the reinforce is lost from the right one. Just to be more complete. From "The Knight and the Blast Furnace" - Some quote, some liberal leaving out of words. The book includes samples from several pieces of the Avant armour. Breas...

wcallen

I bet James is right on. As background for the date (for anyone who wants to get into dating 16th c. armour): It is certainly in the non-German style (Italian, French, etc). The pauldrons and arms are typical. The breastplate is a really early proto-peascod. It hasn't drooped yet, but the idea is si...

wcallen

Sometimes these terms are more confusing than helpful. One of the many kinds of mid 16th c. breastplate: <img src="http://www.allenantiques.com/images/mini-A-107.jpg"> More details: m Late 16th c. breastplate form: <img src="http://www.allenantiques.com/images/mini-BlackAndWhiteBreast.jpg"> More det...

wcallen

The real answer to the last set of questions is 'it depends'. As always. If you want to build correct mid 17th c. breastplates, they should mostly be made out of thick crud. Mild is a fine approximation. If you want to make good 15th c. arms, not have to repair them every time they are hit, and have...

wcallen

Another note for anyone interested. Several people seem to be complaining that this stuff is 'too small' to look like real mail, or too round to be european. I am not sure that is the case. Sort of depends on what you are doing. Every time I try to find something that actually gives me the right app...

wcallen

Thicknesses vary. They vary between pieces in a harness and within a specific piece. There aren't a lot of good studies of thicknesses out there. Many of the estimates have to come from taking a weight for the piece and generalizing. There are some thicknesses available in books, but not many. These...

Next chance to play with authentic armour - Feb. 20 2010