The Armour Archive

SyrRhys

It's funny that we agree on this because you'd exclude most of the deeds of war scenarios and I'm all for allowing them. Not at all, I think there are lots of scenarios that can be explored and that carefully defining their context makes the experience more meaningful, so your base premise is prefe...

SyrRhys

See, I think we're seeing a divergence between Arthurian / romantic "Knightly ideals" and truely historic "Knightly ideals". I would be willing ot bet that MOST people in the SCA would be much happier to submit to the first than the second. There is a lot of behavior, attitudes ...

SyrRhys

Sir Rhys, when do you consider knightly ideals/knightly and chivalrous manners to have come about? Just looking for your opinion of when it became a "Big Deal". When did table manners come about? They didn't just pop into appearance one day, right? Customs take time to develop, and even t...

SyrRhys

T. Finkas wrote:Oh I'd be willing to bet there were Jaguar Warriors on all sides of those Conquistadors, at some of the diciest moments! LOL

LOL! Well played!

SyrRhys

Brand: how is a 7.5' unpadded polearm knightly or chivalrous? Or realistic? how is an unbreakable shield knightly or chivalrous? or realistic? how is a single handed sword that kills with one shot knightly or chivalrous? I hope Brand won't mind me answering for him. Men at arms (a term that include...

SyrRhys

...if someone thinks Jaguar warriors <snip> fought alongside European knights, well, then there's little hope for those poor souls and no amount of education will help. Not to pick nits, but in fact European knights probably did fight "Jaguar warriors". IIRC there were amongst the late 15...

SyrRhys

So your opinion of early period personas - those clearly European, pre-1600 (which is what the charter says, IIRC), but say... 500 - 700 AD? Our entire organization is built around knightly ideals. You see it in our early rules of the lists: "All combatants shall behave in a knightly and chiva...

SyrRhys

Rhys: you've really got to stop making such sweeping statements. from Wiki: "The lessons the English learned in Wales were later used with deadly effect by Welsh mercenaries on the battlefields of France and Scotland. Their skill was exercised under King Edward I of England (r. 1272â€“1307), w...

SyrRhys

Whoops! Man - I took 30 seconds to add a comment and 8 posts got wedged in! My question was in reference to ransoming. In your opinion, did this occur in every period and culture (European) covered under the SCA banner? Well, we have to define that. If we limit it to the middle ages in Western Euro...

SyrRhys

Nor was Don Quixote, but you are engaged in the same sort of "chivalrous combat" he was on this topic. I don't think so, Don Quixote was concerned with a time that was past. I'm trying to change how we go forward. This group is what it is. It tries hard to accomodate as many as possible, ...

SyrRhys

Rhys - for the sake of discussion... Is that true for EVERY period under the SCA banner? Every culture? Just fishing for your opinion / research. Is what true? Seriously, that question may be at the heart of some of this. I may have one overall goal here--the absolute and complete elimination of CA...

SyrRhys

Yawn. I stand for the inclusion of right-thinking people. I stand for progression towards a more authentic form of combat. I stand for the elimination of the unchivalrous and dishonorable archers. Ban combat archery now--no exceptions, no tolerance Then go start your own f**king group, where you an...

SyrRhys

Hi, I agree, except war shouldn't be one of the variants permitted for the simple reason that we can't do even a token job of simulating it. I think we could quibble about the batons, however; such actions were fairly rare in history and were usually just for youngsters (although notable exceptions ...

SyrRhys

Thank you. I guess I'm good for some entertainment value, if nothing more. Shame on me for not speaking up sooner. Actually, you're not entertaining at all. Sorry I offended your sensibilities, but honestly, I call it like I read it. These posts smell of discrimination. Have you read them? Of cours...

SyrRhys

Third, Target areas covered with plate(armour made of sheet metal) or chain is proof against arrow/bolt fire as it most definitely was versus light bows and light crossbows. You ain't wearin plate. No one is. This is part and parcel of the issue as well. Christ's hairy balls, don't you people read ...

SyrRhys

... you're just playing games. What game are you playing? If the Marshallate has made a rule to permit combat archery against the intent of the Copora, then the powers-that-be should conceive some resolution to the situation. I am not one of these powers-that-be. I am just a player in a game. And I...

SyrRhys

Anyone who presumes to be of noble rank and uses a bow on the field abrogates that rank. Rhys, from what source do you come up with this?? Oh, or is it just your opinion? You *have* to be kidding, right? You can't possibly not know that knights didn't shoot bows in combat--no one who's on this list...

SyrRhys

If I could not fight with a knights arms ever again I would give up the station if I wanted to still be a soldier. If I was ever an archer again (I did it twice) it would be after I publicly abandoned the rank of Knight and dismissed my squires. But that ain't ever gonna happen- I'm just sayin'. An...

SyrRhys

You are right, you have moved me on this issue. I am going to endeavor to redouble my efforts to behave in a knightly and chivalrous manner whenever I take to the field with my crossbow. Until such a time as the aforementioned practice is not supported by the rules. Can you honestly pretend--or adm...

SyrRhys

Certainly it serves your argument to interpret the words knightly and chivalrous in one possible historical scenario to insinuate that combat archery falls outside of this description. Let's turn it around---since combat archery IS allowed under the rules, it clearly DOES fall within what the Copor...

SyrRhys

T. Finkas wrote:Don't deflect, answer the question.

Don't change the subject. We're talking about how to deal with people who behave in an unchivalrous manner on the field--archers.

SyrRhys

And while we're questioning stuff, does anybody want to show me where, in the pre-1600's Medieval and Renaissance history of Western Europe, that Kings were chosen by tournament combat? I mean, if you want to tear down one element such as combat archery for being historically inaccurate---is everyt...

SyrRhys

Just that our entire GAME is a suspension of belief. We mix warriors from eras not even remotely close. Cutlures that never interacted (Lets say, Russian and England, 12th c, unless someone can show otherwise), we ignore the weapons and fighting systems that our personas would MOST likely use (comb...

SyrRhys

Uhh.. exactly as silly as "vorpal swords" pal. You cannot tell me that ONE shot from ONE singlehanded sword would be fatal for someone in plate. Or even in chain and leather, which we are SUPPOSED to be wearing. I'm with you on some stuff.. but you cannot support vorpal one-shot weapons i...

SyrRhys

That depends on what the knight is there for- to serve his own self interests, or to earn victory for his king. All this talk on the Archive of the honor and glory of being a knight. Where is the honor in placing your personal goals above your sworn sovereign? Where is the glory in killing 10 or 20...

SyrRhys

Heck, I've read Ix's research on his persona - well thought out and as documented as many - more than most. As his persona has "grown" his garb has changed ot reflect that of a Aztec warrior of the period who has been living in Spain for an extended period. In other words, he is a non-Eur...

SyrRhys

I think a big part of the problem is how one looks at the battle: is it a large knightly melee, where combat takes place one-to-one but on a grand scale, or is it a war, where the objective is to take a structure or field? I believe the majority of fighters approach it as a war. If a knight is abou...

SyrRhys

The nobility of the Scythians and their related tribes and subcultures (i.e the Alans, Sarmatians, Roxolani, etc.) are presumed to have fought with bows, as well as other weapons. Some noble women are thought to have fought alongside men, and as archers. "Scythians" served all over the ex...

SyrRhys

*Irrelevant, I know, to the 14c guys in Western Europe, where "knightly" presupposes heavy cavalry. As a related and friendly aside, in the 14th century "knightly" assumes heavy infantry as often or more often than it does heavy cavalry. I can think of only a few *major* battles...

SyrRhys

d'Antioche wrote:
SyrRhys wrote: Richard the First at the siege of Acre?

There's certainly a story to that effect. I've yet to find anyone with hard evidence.

SyrRhys

Cet wrote: We are instructed in the Society Rules of the Lists to behave in a knightly and chivalrous manner. Knighthood and chivalry are the ideals SCA combat is intended to foster regardless of whether or not you personna predated them or was from a non-European society.

Just so; well said!

SyrRhys

We (in the SCA) are not all 14th century European. Not only were there Kings and Queens of (pre-1600) history that were noted for their ability with the bow, in addition there are (pre-1600) historical periods and cultures where nobles (are presumed to have) fought in combat with bows. Oh? In Weste...

SyrRhys

Beware an assumption that would lead you to believe an archer is not nobility. The not so long ago Queen of Aethelmark (sp) Tessa fought on the field with her bow. Some princesses, baronesses, and ladies follow their consorts onto the field choosing archery as a venue--I've seen it. I don't think I...

SyrRhys

In my mind I am never bothered by it since a) we generally don't have any mounted combat but are portraying the knightly class, Are we? I thought we were all of the nobility , but not necessarily the knightly class. The knightly class (in which class I include squires since they did in period, too)...

SyrRhys

Re: Yielding archers

Re: Yielding archers

Re: Yielding archers

Re: Yielding archers

Re: Yielding archers

Re: Yielding archers