The Armour Archive

Ernst

The argument against it being mail is that it isn't done on the aventail. James B. brought up some effigies on the musekins thread which have the same tight rows, sometimes smaller than the mail is depicted. The rows can also run around the arm. I mistook this example for mail, but have gotten bette...

Ernst

It certainly looks like a hinge. I don't see why they'd put a hinge there as a non-functional decoration...if it is functional, it seems that the pin would need to slide down to remove it, since there is no exposed pin head to grab onto at the neck hem. The pin can be fixed in one side if the other...

Ernst

That also seems to be a common problem with copies of the Gjermundbu helm. The original has a lot more space on top, or attic as you say. Despite that, you're doing a good job of fitting it all together, and I suspect the fact you're taking your time with it is more beneficial in the long run. I nev...

Ernst

I think your skull is considerably closer fitting than the original. The Coppergate's nasal is quite long and canted out as well.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... Helmet.jpg

Ernst

Clearly you're passionate about the issue. I generally don't like to dissect posts, you've dumped a lot on me for Egfroth's and my comments. Clearly we disagree. I believe your lengthy arguments all fall into the following category. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Negative_proof A negative proof (known...

Ernst

I'll opt for tightly quilted aketon sleeve. The "demi-vambraces" buckled above it seems peculiar, perhaps unique.

Ernst

No. You are arguing that the very lack of evidence is a preponderance pointing the opposite direction. No one is arguing that an undergarment (tunic) was not worn. The argument is over whether a "padded" undergarment was used.

Ernst

Is it just me, or do the klappvisiers generally get the eye slots closer to the face?

Ernst

Mac and Tom,
Perhaps you should consider Ian Laspina's girdle/lendinier method for some of the suspension of brayette and legs?
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=173292

Ernst

Myron wrote:I think for the armor to be effective the gap between plates needs to be as small as possible and it has to be offset to stop cuts. Not sure how effective it would be against a thrust.

I think Myron has a valid conclusion for the purpose of the running bond pattern.

Ernst

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/cal-state-papers/foreign/vol5/pp559-581 20 December 1562 1301. Vaughan to Cecil. 1. Cecil will receive from Mr. Marshall the certificate for such armour as the captains received from the countries. Of this armour the writer delivered to Mr. Ponyngs ninety-four corsle...

Ernst

Looks more like leather to me, Tom.

Ernst

See if we can find a better image? Apparently it's at a difficult height to photograph. http://www.monnuage.fr/photos/point-d-interet/109040/472103 Most sources seem to call this early 13th century, though some hedge with end of the 12th, early 13th century assignment. http://jalladeauj.fr/gens/page...

Ernst

Back to topic, Richardson does give references to a complete set of plate arms and legs covered with "Cloth of Cologne" which I understand is a type of cloth of gold, but on a blue background instead of black. Another is covered in red silk. In 1353 Rothwell received: 106 pairs of vambraces , 2 of i...

Ernst

WLB Cod.poet.et phil.fol.2, fo.267v; Konrad von Ammenhausen; Schachzabelbuch ; Hagenau, Alsace, 1467 Manuscript: http://digital.wlb-stuttgart.de/purl/bsz330052896 Folio 267v: http://digital.wlb-stuttgart.de/filegroups/konrscha_330052896/max/00000542.jpg Folio 268v: http://digital.wlb-stuttgart.de/fi...

Ernst

Black and white shoes - WLB Cod.poet.et phil.fol.2, fo.200v; Konrad von Ammenhausen; Schachzabelbuch ; Hagenau, Alsace, 1467 Manuscript: http://digital.wlb-stuttgart.de/purl/bsz330052896 Folio: http://digital.wlb-stuttgart.de/filegroups/konrscha_330052896/max/00000408.jpg WLB Cod.poet.et phil.fol.2 ...

Ernst

Mac,
Two contemporary examples of "Spanish butt cheek armor", one on the King of Aragon and the other on a lowly foot soldier??? Sorry, I can see it appearing on the King, but the other guy -- at nearly the same time?

Ernst

Would riveting a leather cover to each individual metal scale be more time consuming or difficult than riveting a metal reinforcement to each individual leather scale?

Ernst

Does it?

Ernst

Jan van Eyck, Crucifixion , 1435-1440, Bruges, Metropolitan Museum of Art 33.92a http://www.metmuseum.org/collection/the-collection-online/search/436282 MET 33.92a-lthr.jpg Leather vambraces and cops on the Hungarian archer? MET 33.92a-b.jpg St. Mike's greaves in the adjacent Last Judgement , 33.92b...

Ernst

Tooled pattern or patterned fabric.

Ernst

The context of the relevant text supplied by Lorenzo in the other thread: In Brabant, Flanders and Hainault, and in those countries near the Germanies, they are accustomed to arms themselves differently for a tourney. They take a demi-pourpoint of two layers, not more, padded in the back and over th...

Ernst

Why? Weren't knights wearing Faraday suits?

Ernst

The indenture for issues to the fleet in 1337 includes 152 aketons, at least ninetyeight of them again covered with white cloth. Another form is the aketon of plates, evidently an aketon incorporating iron plates, which is unnoticed in the history of armour. One was covered in green leather, twelve...

Ernst

I'm curious what the earliest date for a jack of plate is, I didn't turn up much in some online searches. Did they all have a peascod form, or is there any evidence for any being made in the early 16h century that would have had a different form? It's hard to see much difference in construction wit...

Ernst

James Arlen Gillaspie wrote:I think the Madeln II is a member of the elusive 'sugarloaf' tribe. Am I out of my tree, or is anyone with me?

I think so. The peculiar "L-brackets" at the side make me think it might have also had a barber for the throat at one point.

Ernst

Mac, No disagreement that there's a pigment issue. It's loss is also seen on a number of the backing helmets, and on the hosen on the fellow in red armor to the right. Meanwhile the plate legs on the nail bearer to his right are quite clear. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Giacomo_Jaquerio_05...

Ernst

I agree, reinforcement against downward strikes seems the most reasonable. In fact, there are some noticeable gouges on the top edge. Looks like some of the rivets got clenched over too.

Ernst

Tom, It might be worth noting the DHM "aventail" example still retains a buckle on the left side, and a rivet (presumably for a strap) on the right side of the split in the back. If there was ever the hook fastener as well, it may now be hidden in the leather band or cording for the vervelles. Also ...

Ernst

It seems to be a common trend to see this displayed with the hook acting as a retainer for the strap, rather than over the mail holding the collar level at the overlap. I would presume the exceptionally long leather is modern repair also.

Ernst

I'm sure something could be learned from a detailed study of this mail bevor turned aventail, but am generally inclined to vote for the "mucked with too much" option.

Ernst

For documentation, the David and Goliath image is from the Psalter and Hours of Alfonso V of Aragon , British Library (doh), Add. MS 28962, fo. 81v, Spain (probably Aragon), 1436-1443. Manuscript: http://www.bl.uk/manuscripts/FullDisplay.aspx?ref=Add_MS_28962 Goliath folio with zoom: http://www.bl.u...

Ernst

If you're going to do aventail holes in the top of the curtain, it's easier to punch them before you rivet the curtain to the bowl. If you're drilling them, probably better the other way around.

Ernst

Most of the pin closure rings for point-of-sale signage are made of POM (Delrin).

Ernst

From 1410, Giacomo Jaquerio's Crucifixion.

"Giacomo Jaquerio 05" by Diesel43 - Own work. Licensed under CC BY-SA 3.0 via Wikimedia Commons - http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... rio_05.JPG

Re: John Leverick arms

Re: Discussion of extant mail standards

Re: Coppergate project

Re: Coppergate project

Re: Very cool article on military kit throughout history.

Re: John Leverick arms

Re: Very cool article on military kit throughout history.

Re: Bascinet of the Wallce A69 bascinet?

Re: Dusting off the cobwebs

Re: Panzerhosen

Re: jacks stuffed with mail... looking for references

Re: Panzerhosen

Re: I Wanna Be a 11th C. to mid-12th C. Norman

Re: Looking for a picture of covered greaves

Re: Medieval key rings/chains ?

Oxford Spats, 1467 Style

Re: Looking for a picture of covered greaves

Re: Leather armour in art? (brown with metal strips & rivets

Re: Looking for a picture of covered greaves

Re: Leather armour in art? (brown with metal strips & rivets

Re: Looking for a picture of covered greaves

Re: Any extant examples of mail like this?

Re: Carrying a sword in a thunderstorm?

Re: Panzerhosen

Re: Breast & Back Plate Cheaper than a Jack of Plate?

Re: Unusual feature of the barrel helm in Goll thesis, ref a

Re: Discussion Pizan vs Standard: what is the difference?

Re: Unusual feature of the barrel helm in Goll thesis, ref a

Re: Discussion Pizan vs Standard: what is the difference?

Re: Discussion of extant mail standards

Re: Discussion Pizan vs Standard: what is the difference?

Re: Panzerhosen

Re: Starter hat

Re: plastic maille

Re: Leather armour in art? (brown with metal strips & rivets