The Armour Archive

Ernst

Here's an interesting one. Four straps and buckles on a front closure, and a fabric(?) hood. Perhaps a barbiere , barbute de maglia , or just a standard over a hood. (Painting has been previously discussed for the baies toggles and leather armor.) http://armourinart.com/40/49/ http://commons.wikimed...

Ernst

Since we have inventory records of leather armors, sometimes covered in fabric, and metal armors, sometimes covered in fabric or leather, how are we to determine if an image which looks like leather falls into the first category or the second?

Ernst

Compare the scales on the 1307 effigy of Walter de Fresne, Church of St Michael and All Saints, Moccas, Herefordshire, England. Scales that are perhaps 2"/50mm wide at the top? http://effigiesandbrasses.com/1676/4767/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/sheepdog_rex/6417869523/in/photostream It should be n...

Ernst

That makes more sense to me for interpretation of the Isenmann image.

Ernst

What Nigerian account should we send our money to?

Ernst

And a bump to add an all-latten "Bishop's Mantle" or cape of mail in the Met:
http://www.metmuseum.org/collection/the ... 13&pos=492

(Of course, no photo and not on display.)

Ernst

The Met has 1365 items showing as "Gift of William H. Riggs, 1913". Most weren't cataloged until the following year, so have numbers in the "14." series. I'm searching through the online collection now. EDIT: No luck finding them in the online catalog. Might not have been added yet, might have been ...

Ernst

http://digi.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/diglit/cpg112/0084 End of the 12th century , i.e. c. 1200. http://manuscriptminiatures.com/5012/15623/ (Although Manuscript Miniatures follows Cambridge University's dating of 1250-1270, the armor images suggest something in the first quarter of the 13th century for ...

Ernst

He makes better sense when you can see the whole figure. He's still ugly, of course, but that's important for the iconography. Oh, and how about that purse he has around his neck? It looks like it would make a nice sort of bag for the reenactor to take to the market. This is the sort of detail that...

Ernst

And the fellow holding Christ by the hair has one of those compound plate and mail gorgets.

Ernst

Get a tonsure.

Ernst

I've learned something today. :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belt_buckle Very small buckles with removable center pins and chapes were introduced and used on shoes, beginning in the 17th century, but not often for waist-belts. A "chape" is the fixed cover which attaches buckle to belt while the "mo...

Ernst

Since Mac linked us to the 1420 Louvre inventory of Charles VI, and Tom brought it up in the other thread, there is this entry: 230. Item, unes manches d’acier et une gorgerette d’acier garnye de boucles, tissus et mordans, d’argent doré. Since the sleeves of steel are listed as manches d'acier rath...

Ernst

Also from the AAF, an inventory from Charles VI. Metal Finishing leather armor is mentioned in the inventory of the property of King Charles VI Someone better at translation will have to help me out here. (click to open full citation) https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-zjBhAndK8uQ/VO4yJ5aPk2I/AAAAA...

Ernst

Electrolysis with anti-freeze or some such. Time consuming, but safe to the artifact. But you already know that.
http://www.metaldetectingworld.com/elec ... oval.shtml

The best alternate might be a vibratory tumbler with mild media.

Ernst

I worry about those mail bevors and related defenses that guys wore with kettle hats and such. You see them all the time in images of masses of armed men, yet the inventories don't seem to mention them..... Could these be the thing that the inventories are calling pizanes? They seem to fade from us...

Ernst

Although there are certainly leather armors with metal splints, I am not convinced this is what is being shown in Isenmann's art. How to explain the bright bands around the arm? I think a fabric or leather cover riveted over steel is a better explanation. (See Amanda/Isabella's recent thread.) How s...

Ernst

Interesting bar grill in that too, Len. http://s3.amazonaws.com/everystockphoto/fspid30/11/47/03/43/alsace-france-colmar-11470343-o.jpg Caspar Isenmann, Retable, Betrayal of Christ , 1465, Unterlinden Museum The big image: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Caspar_Isenmann,_Betrayal_...

Ernst

The 1316 Inventory of Louis X of France starts with some interesting bits. Being the king, it's easy to see why most of his mail is made of more expensive steel than the more common iron. But we are left with an array of mail which seems designed to protect the neck; double gorgets, a camail, Pisane...

Ernst

The thing that seems most vexing about making a brigandine is the part where the columns of plates taper. You can't just snip them to shape and rivet them in like you can with galvanized steel. Unless I am mistaken, tinning only works well if the edges are tinned too. This creates a logistic proble...

Ernst

Try this site:
http://www.ecologyofcrusading.com/publications.html

Ernst

Hey, At least you're getting more responses than I was.

Ernst

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=176732

At least we have some of the same feeds?

Ernst

https://books.google.com/books?id=cksGAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA102&lpg=PA102&dq=chau%C3%A7ons&source=bl&ots=YTewA8ZJhu&sig=hK5oMhhB2hQQMt4xQzEi1LCtu6o&hl=en&sa=X&ei=QF3qVPOvNsirNry_g8gM&ved=0CFQQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=chau%C3%A7ons&f=false Inventory of Arms of Joust, of War, and of Tournament of the Count of Auxer...

Ernst

Doing a Google search under chauçons (using the cedilla brings older references), we find this. Still not helpful with form or shape, however. https://books.google.com/books?id=cksGAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA102&lpg=PA102&dq=chau%C3%A7ons&source=bl&ots=YTewA8ZJhu&sig=hK5oMhhB2hQQMt4xQzEi1LCtu6o&hl=en&sa=X&ei=QF3...

Ernst

Baron A,
The rows of scales are connected with rings, but were still sewn to a backing fabric, unlike the Ring Lord construction. In the lorica hamata squamataque (H.R. Robinson's lorica plumata) the scales are woven into 4:1 mail, again a different method than the Ring Lord structure.

Ernst

Ernst, Your interpretation of "chaussons" as some sort of mail-knee-highs is quite plausible. I wish there were more evidence, though. Mac I concur. I think the likelihood of these being some sort of mail sabaton is less, but a plausible explanation. Interestingly they outnumber the long chausses i...

Ernst

Perhaps the sleeve of St. Martin? Silk taffeta facing, raw "uncombed" cotton interior, with a variable number of linen layers lining the inside. http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=114775 ... She might also have realized that there are ZERO "extant layered gambesons" from the ...

Ernst

Sometimes you see them around the arms as well. Looks to have a pronounced belly. Peascod?

Ernst

Sean Manning recently sent me a link for the long inventory of arms from King Louis X of France in 1316: http://ducange.enc.sorbonne.fr/ARMATURA3 Included in the inventory are chaussons (modernly slippers or booties) of mail as well as chausses of mail. Item 3. paires de chauces de fer. Item 8. pair...

Ernst

Check Bestiaries from the late 13th century. There are usually images of huntsmen in them.

Ernst

Butter churns?

Ernst

A catalog error. Clearly the rings are solids as seen in the photographs.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/or ... 0c2a63.jpg

Ernst

Odd that you think the "period" way of doing things, when men's lives were dependent on it being done right and durably, would be less functional.

Ernst

The construction used by the Ring Lord is completely unknown historically. That said, scale armor continues to be shown throughout the medieval period, often as a supplement to mail, and later as an alternative in aventails and skirts. It's uncommon, and rarely appears as body armor after the early ...

Re: Discussion Pizan vs Standard: what is the difference?

Re: Leather armour in art? (brown with metal strips & rivets

Re: 13th century sources?

Re: Leather armour in art? (brown with metal strips & rivets

Re: Norman arms and armour

Re: Brass?

Re: Extant Leather Knee/Elbows

Re: I Wanna Be a 11th C. to mid-12th C. Norman

Re: Leather armour in art? (brown with metal strips & rivets

Re: Leather armour in art? (brown with metal strips & rivets

Re: medieval haircut?

Re: Discussion Pizan vs Standard: what is the difference?

Re: Discussion Pizan vs Standard: what is the difference?

Re: Leather armour in art? (brown with metal strips & rivets

Re: Was maille cleaned using sand and vinegar?

Re: Discussion Pizan vs Standard: what is the difference?

Re: Leather armour in art? (brown with metal strips & rivets

Re: Discussion Pizan vs Standard: what is the difference?

Re: Discussion Pizan vs Standard: what is the difference?

Re: Article on THE BRIGANDINE FROM THE POLISH ARMY MUSEUM

Re: Excavations at Cesis Castle in Latvia any updates?

Re: Medieval Armour from Szczerba Castle - Academia.edu

Re: Medieval Armour from Szczerba Castle - Academia.edu

Re: Musekins

Re: Chaussons

Re: Best time period/region for metal scale armor?

Re: Chaussons

Re: Gambeson composition experiment.

Re: Article on THE BRIGANDINE FROM THE POLISH ARMY MUSEUM

Chaussons

Re: Forester 1275 England

Re: Was maille cleaned using sand and vinegar?

Re: Haubergeon sleeve length and vambraces in the 14th c.

Re: Best time period/region for metal scale armor?

Re: Best time period/region for metal scale armor?