The Armour Archive

Ernst

I can ILL if I have to, but thought I'd ask first. In reference to this thread m Does anyone have access to Phillip E. Bennet's parallel translation of Le Prise d'Orange , ISBN 0-7293-04213? I am looking for the original text for Laisse XL (40), line 1203. The Ferrante translation of lines 1201-1203...

Ernst

Interestingly enough, Count William of Orange is reported using an unusual shot in La Prise: Count William brandishes the sword of steel, in fury he moves to strike a pagan back handed and cuts him straight through the middle. -- La Prise d'Orange L.xl, ll. 1201-3, trans. Joan Ferrante To cut 'back...

Ernst

Hi, I've been practicing sword-and-buckler against my pell using advice Sir Rhys gave me (excellent advice BTW) and I land "tip" a lot and have heard that "tippy" might not be called. Why? -Aaron Cause it means the very end of the sword mushed across whatever the target was, mak...

Ernst

I realize that epic poems like the Song of Roland or La Prise d'Orange are almost like using a movie for documentation, as they abound with fantastic stories; yet, the concept of knights on the defensive having shattered their lances and lost their horses being forced to fight on foot with swords an...

Ernst

I always survived with couters under the mail, colored or covered to match the aketon. The poleyns are a bit more difficult. In Ee.3.59 (Edward the Confessor) from mid-century, you see some simple dome-poleyns on gamboissed cuisses, but they usually don't cover the side of the knee. King Sweyn has s...

Ernst

For the period 1230-1250, the single most important item distinguishing a member of the order would be the black cappa clausa or monastic robe. This seems to have been enclosed (no front opening or buttons) until late in the century; the gown was normally ankle length, with long sleeves, but there i...

Ernst

An LH group devoted to the order:

http://www.knightshospitaller.net/

Ernst

Before getting into the particulars of arms and armor for the timeframe, perhaps it's best to start with the basics of the Rule?

http://www.smom-za.org/rule.htm

http://blessed-gerard.org/

Ernst

thanks! saving photos and links.... You're welcome! I couldn't even find a thread in the "I wanna be" forum devoted to the 1230s. Odd. I regret there's not much in those illuminations to save you the trouble of lots of mail. You might be able to get away without the chausses or use lace-b...

Ernst

Marc Carlson has a list.

http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~Marc-Ca ... ather.html

Ernst

Here's a miniature from Harley MS 4751 dated to c. 1235. The elephant, fo. 8r has a couple of helms similar to yours in the castle. m[SVC2].jpg Royal MS 12 F.xiii, fo.9v, the Antelope. m[SVC2].jpg The unicorn hunter, Royal MS 12 F.xiii, fo. 10v. from 1230 has only mail. m[SVC2].jpg A good example of...

Ernst

I know thew helm is different but it's the same basic time period right? Where can I find helms closer to the one I have represented? The Maciejowski Bible is generally dated to c. 1250, as is the Edward the Confessor manuscript Ee.3.59. The general style of flaring crown and bulging mask is a few ...

Ernst

How about the muppet paws on St. Maurice the Egyptian?

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... deburg.jpg

Ernst

zippy wrote:manesse codex?

Another early 14th century source to follow for an early/mid- 13th century helm?

Here's the gear for the 1230's:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... k_-_46.jpg

Ernst

Looking thru the Mac bible... I think I have the first guy's ( red ) budget and the second guy's ( blue ) helm.... http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r295/ConalOhAirt/macbibleexamples.jpg Any examples of the cloth armour with the ( guessing here ) more expensive noble's helm? It's not that the nobl...

Ernst

The problem, of course, is that even the nobility didn't have "hard" arms in the 12th and 13th centuries.

Ernst

So I'm reviewing sources, and find this example from Jerpoint, Ireland which is dated by the Monumental Brass Society to c. 1270. m m The incised brass of two knights is dated to c. 1270, and the Huth Psalter example is c. 1280. Are both of these showing a shallow conical top, or the same poor artis...

Ernst

Sorry, I forgot that you're new to the 13th century.

http://www.lib.cam.ac.uk/MSS/Ee.3.59/

Enjoy.

Ernst

Stick with the Maciejowski, Ee.3.59, or Villard de Honnecourt's album for inspiration. A sleeved surcoat can hide a lot.

http://classes.bnf.fr/villard/grand/carnet/37.htm

Ernst

If you can live with butted mail, a 1/2 mile spool of electric fence wire is cheap. Of course the time you spend on mail-making may cause you to sleep in your shop cause your wife gets mad at you.

Ernst

The helm is top of the line from about 1215-1230, fading into obsolecense from 1230-1260. You need a mail hauberk with mail mittens and coif, mail chausses topped with cuisses (gamboissed, scale, or leather) and poleyns, and a long surcoat (knee length at least).

Ernst

I'm a glutton. More pictures, please!

Ernst

Necro Thread Alert

Well. it seemed easier to add these images from the NYPL than to start a new thread on boxy breasts.

Keyser Conrad, c. 1445, Spencer Coll. MS 104, f. 56

http://digitalgallery.nypl.org/nypldigital/id?427839

folio 78v

http://digitalgallery.nypl.org/nypldigital/id?1266425

Ernst

While researching manuscript images online from the New York Public Library, I discovered the naive images in the Picture Bible of Cunradus Schlapperitzi of 1445. Lots of non-detailed armor images are to be seen. Perhaps some new and exciting "detail" might be discovered for those interest...

Ernst

About two decades ago, I wanted to make something appropriate for the 13th century besides a barrel helm. I found the children's books by L. & F. Funcken, and despite lack of documentation, made several "Crayola Helms", (named by a friend because the top looked like a crayon...). Nicol...

Ernst

Looks good. Need more chanfrons?

As an aside, I loved the horsemanship shown in National Geographic's Guns, Germs, and Steel. Jinete on Andalusians......ahhhh! (From 2:22 onward.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQkuJ-do ... re=related

Ernst

Good video of riding in the jinete style from National Geographic's Guns, Germs, and Steel starting at 2:22.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQkuJ-do ... re=related

Ernst

Colored scales seem possible. I'd consult Egfroth and some of the leather experts to determine if this was likely paint, colored lacquer, or dye. Here's an image I snagged from sometime back from the Austrian reenactment group Historia Vivens 1300 . Unfortunately, they have removed the image from th...

Ernst

Here's a figure less well published, the scale clad guard from the Portal of St. Stephen (South Portal), Notre Dame de Paris from the first half of the 13th century. The scene portrays St. Stephen before the Sanhedrin.

Ernst

Sigifrith Hauknefr wrote:Earnst - when is that artwork from? You mentioned spain...

"Early 14th century" is the best dating I've seen.

Ernst

The important thing to note in these western examples, is that the scale armor is being used as a supplemental defense to mail, the same role fulfilled in later decades by the coat of plates. There's been some discussion of this type of scaled statuary before, which always leads to this Flickr page:...

Ernst

Why use lam when scale is clearly depicted? The sash, cape with fleuret borders, and pteruges (at least at the waist, and often at the arms) can be found in at least four French sculptures, as well as manuscripts from France (Life of St. Denis, 1317). The same setup appears in the Manesse and a numb...

Ernst

They, to the best of my knowledge, would be a jack built around a mail shirt (a front-opening one, likely, closed by points or straps). They are also termed 'gestraunt' in some late Medival English documents, and could be very well made for important people (John Howard and his sons, in example, wh...

Ernst

Nobles don't really start carrying daggers until the early 13th century from what I've seen. The carry of knives as tools was common, but war-specific daggers was not.

Ernst

Konstantin the Red wrote:Well, pickling is like salting. It's use of a brine, and often a spiced brine.

Salting with anaerobic fermentation combined. Additionally, a lot of those spices (garlic, mustard) have anti-microbial properties as well. Lavender jugged veal.....mmmm.

Book Request or French speakers

Re: "Tippy"?

Picture Bible, 1445

Zombie Helm