The Armour Archive

Ernst

Piers Brent wrote:Cotton is crap, just stay away from it.

Cotton is King, Sir!

In my 13th century kit, the cotton gambeson does cling and hold perspiration, but when the wind blows, I've had to put on a surcoat to stay warm in high heat and humidity.

Ernst

We've had threads on late 13th-early 14th century center-grip heaters before, and a handful of examples have been found. I'm with everyone else on a NO vote to the oval.

Ernst

I have seen historical references to using tow (linen waste fiber) or old linen (rags). What exactly do you have in mind by "batting"?

Ernst

That's not really a "different option": It's just line drawings of the Wells' statuary. I'd go with a suspension top, the padded coif with "torse" roll, and a padded gambeson collar. I never had the suspension top, but a straight-sided heaume will rest on the torse/collar the req...

Ernst

Crack or krek is a really ancient Anglo-Germanic word which may have originated as an onomatopoeic for the sound of a breaking tree. Consequently, anything which made a sharp sound as it broke was cracked. To crack a joke, or a head, both imply doing so loudly. As Baron Alejandro has pointed out, t...

Ernst

I wouldn't try to speculate on how much material has been lost due to corrosion. Under some circumstances, the ring's thickness can increase as corrosion occurs. It always seemed best to me to simply weigh, measure, and record the current, actual data. You should always ask the staff if the sample i...

Ernst

Piers Brent wrote:Best I can do without really digging around is La Isabella in the Caribbean about 50 years earlier.

http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/histarch/galle ... .asp?id=66

It would be nice to have a simple scale in the photo, no?

Ernst

Iron mail from Hernando de Soto's contemporary winter encampment, the Governor Martin site, has been recovered. Perhaps Vermin can give good specifics. I've seen a few pieces, but would have to consult my notes to see if I observed details. Around three years ago, a small group of rings was on loan ...

Ernst

Andreas Korff wrote:* Unsure how to translate Tartsche. Target? Buckler?

Hope this helps.

Target comes from the same root. Adarga is, as noted previously, derived from the Arabic word for shield. The "darga"="targe" connection seems obvious.

Ernst

What really strikes me about that example, and other b&w pics shown, is that all the gilt decor is on the inside of the shield. Stunningly beautiful.

Ernst

Today's thread on the "shovel-visor" bascinet/sugarloaf style of helmet contained a link to the Holkham Picture Bible. I had never noticed this valentine-like shield before. Perhaps this, and the examples from the KA 20 manuscript should be listed as "adarga inspired", or perhaps...

Ernst

I'll start the ball rolling... "Around the 14th century" is a very wide span to cover, 100+/- years. Fashions and style changed considerably between 1301 and 1400. If you keep the mail and coat of plates, you're probably somewhere before 1370. A spangenhelm is out the window, and should be...

Ernst

When Hernando de Soto mustered his troops to conquer la Florida , the Portuguese "Gentleman of Elves" reported the Castillians appeared in "poor and rusty shirts of mail". Most literary references, especially those written in the romantic/heroic vein refer to mail as shining, bri...

Ernst

Jeff J wrote:We really aren't doing them any favors by doing all of their work for them.

No, but we do learn a lot for ourselves! It's why I only research topics for others when I'm interested in the topic myself.

Ernst

Well, perhaps you should label the thread as 'pic heavy' now? The two "Aztec" examples are c. 1540 from the Lienzo de Tlaxcala , a codex produced by Cortez's Tlaxcalan allies. The use of the light spear over the top groove in the adarga shown in the Lienzo , combined with the more pronounc...

Ernst

I checked the wiki entry, and found this link to a restoration report for a feather-covered "tribute" adarga.

http://nuevomundo.revues.org/index1468.html

P.S. Alejandro, I'll send the fourth set of pics.

Ernst

Here's the adarga from the 1317 St. Denis manuscript. This depicts the Saint's antagonist, the Roman general Sisinnius. Looks like a leather, lion-mask adarga to go along with that scale armor and early, visored bascinet.

Ernst

If memory serves correctly, the earliest sculptural example may be on the purbeck marble effigy of William Longespee the Younger, in Salisbury Cathedral. William was killed at the Battle of Mansoura in 1250, and his remains were buried in Acre after being released some years later. Dating for the ef...

Ernst

Here's a link to construction details of some New World examples: m I'm sure there are examples of adargas in use in 16th century art. The T I.1 manuscript from the late 13th century shows them in use by the 1280s, though in the hands of Andalusians. I'm aware of at least one incised effigial slab f...

Ernst

There is the Cenotaph of St. Henrik in Nousiainen, Finland. If I remember correctly from previous discussions, the latten pieces were made in Flanders, so it's questionable whether the armor styles shown are Finnish or Flemish.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... iainen.JPG

Ernst

I believe the helmet is in the Netherlands Army Museum? It has been discussed before, perhaps here or the 75Years Yahoo group? Edit: The helm was discussed on 75 Years around Sept. 11, 2000, though the pictures have been removed. It is in the Netherlands Army Museum in Delft, and was labelled at tha...

Ernst

Do you have a low-res image? Are you certain of the authorship? I suspect you might be looking for KA30 in the Dutch KB from the title and date.

Ernst

I presume Nicolle was referring to the Battle of Velbazhd: m _of_Velbazhd Objects without proveniece are always difficult. Dinosaur tracks from Texas riverbeds end up in New York, and ancient Egyptian artifacts are in London. My experience, however, is that artifacts in small, local museums generall...

Ernst

Another option would be a 3rd Crusade introduction from troops under Barbarossa. High face-covering coifs seem more popular in the late 12th-early 13th centuries. For example these coifs from Konrad's Rolandslied : m m Unfortunately, separate coifs, especially those with square panels seem less comm...

Ernst

In Arms & Armour of the Crusading Era Nicolle notes, "Serbia later rose to regional dominance after defeating the Bulgarians in 1330...Their army consisted of feudal forces under local lords, strengthened by mercenary units made up of both locals and foreigners. Most of the latter were Germ...

Ernst

How about this commonly reproduced German miniature in the British Library, instead?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... erman_.jpg

Medka first offered the similar and contemporary Sankt Maurice of Magdeberg:

http://www.arador.com/articles/stmaurice.jpg

Ernst

Norman, Coifs on the effigy of William Longsword, and one of the knights from Wells Cathedral both come to just below the nose. I think both of those sources are c. 1230. Of course the odds of a 13th century coif surviving in such a good state of preservation are not nearly as likely as this being a...

Ernst

The square front and back lappet appear in a number of German sources besides the Magdeberg St. Maurice. Most are generally dated to the mid- to late 13th century, although one example might be c. 1180. I don't know much about Turkish armor, so I'd have to see examples of a similar form in that cont...

Ernst

There is still quite a variety in "regular" mail. Mail with alternating rows of solid and riveted links; mail where the solid rings are a different diameter than the riveted ones; 4mm mail and 25mm baidana links; flat rings and round rings: all of these have a slightly different appearance...

Ernst

Another example is from the Holkham Picture Bible.

http://www.thehaca.com/Manuals/i33/port ... arly13.JPG

Ernst

There are several rounded examples in the 1317 Life and Miracles of St. Denis.

http://www.thearma.org/essays/SandB/fre ... tDenis.JPG

Ernst

What I find more interesting is the sword through and through the opponent. Can anyone enlighten us as to what is being represented ? The setting suggests to me a judicial duel. I'm always interested in the images showing weapons defeating armour. The image depicts the duel between Eneas and Turnus...

Ernst

The second image is from cpg 403, a copy of Veldeke's Eneit, of 1418-9. What you think to be horizontal bars are almost certainly an attempt to represent chin, lips, and the bottom of the nose.

http://www.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/ebind/d ... 403504.jpg

I always liked the "Elmer Fudd goes to bat" scene from the same manuscript.

http://www.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/ebind/d ... 403306.jpg

Ernst

The most noble breed is the mutt.

Ernst

Crecy was 1346, no? The Romance of Alexander presented in 1344 shows a number of examples, though they're not as common as bascinets. I think the Dutch KA20 is almost exclusively sugarloaves and cervellieres, though it's a decade or two early. I'd say it's a good call to use one in your case.

Re: A modest proposal