The Armour Archive

Ernst

I suspect Jean, Sire de Joinville's accout of the Egyptian Crusade might come closest to an accurate (though upper-class) first-person account of the horrors of war in the medieval period.

Edit to provide links--

http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/toc/moden ... dLord.html

Which can be found, along with many other medieval documents here:

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/sbook2.html

Ernst

This might offer some help. m Erik Schmid also has one photographic example shown on the Mail Research Society page which would seem to indicate round rivets were the norm before the 13th century in German lands. TMRS has a number of articles in PDF format with more detailed information as well, alt...

Ernst

To correct myself, the example give by Mr. Schmid is not an haubergeon, but a pair of mail sleeves (Wallace A10-11). Seen here in the second photo down: m The old Collection Catalogue calls these 15th-16th century, but since they missed the fact that the links are tinned latten rather than iron, I w...

Ernst

Erik, It's amazing what a search engine will turn up! That seems like such a long time ago. Fortunately, Erik D. Schmid has since found and posted on the Mail Research Society pages an example of an entire latten haubergeon. Dr. Alan Williams has done some study on latten mail from decorative border...

Ernst

While I could support the idea of wearing a sleeveless aketon over a gambeson (having provided a citation stating this was done in 13th century London), I have all kinds of problems with wearing a sleevless aketon over a kyrtle with attached padded sleeves. Has anyone seen any illustration of a shir...

Ernst

Hopefully no problems then. Thanks for aiding in my undertanding. I completely missed the first thread.

Mart

Ernst

Another example from the Trinity Apocalypse showing very similar leg armor graces the cover of Osprey's Warrior 48 "Englsh Medieval Knight 1200-1300". Neither example shows strapping or laces to hold the plates or plaques in place. In the Osprey example (fo.23r) the plates are white, with the poleyn...

Ernst

I see that makes me the odd man out. I know of no prevelance, or even use of pointing for sleeves in the 13th century. I don't think the shoulder construction is hidden at all, because I think the sleeves are sewn to a "linear" (if I might borrow Tasha's term) body. Therefore I seek explanations for...

Ernst

Peder and Vitus, I apologize for having barged into your conversation without understanding the context of what you are attempting, but since you were in a public forum I hoped to provide some useful idea. Peder, I am somewhat confused over your calling this structure suitable for a "military camp"....

Ernst

It could be a root cellar or a house of ill repute for all I know!

Unfortunately my home system hasn't got enough oomph to download MS. 264 anytime tonight. Perhaps I'll check out context at work tomorrow. From http://image.ox.ac.uk/images/bodleian/m ... 64/83r.jpg
I presume?

Ernst

Gee, if your going to make a plywood wedge, why not just go with that?

http://home.adelphi.edu/sbloch/sca/tent ... 3r.hut.jpg

Ernst

Although I hate replying to myself, a few days of mulling over this thread has brought a few concerns to mind. (OK, it's an excuse to give this a Bump to the top.) First, while I think it useful to study construction of garments appropriate to the period in question -- let's say the first 3/4's of t...

Ernst

You might want to look at julep cups. Not quite a medieval beaker, but they are readily available.

Ernst

I think this was already summed up well when it was noted that you have a gambeson that you're wanting to be an arming doublet. You guys should learn to be happy with a bascinet and aventail, hourglass gauntlets, and pair of legs. Leave the arm harness at home.

Ernst

Good to hear about Bart's success with wooden shields. This is one case where I'm not so sure the period solution is the best for SCA use. Remember, period shields were generally considered disposable items. They were not intended to last through tourney after tourney or battle after battle. And, b...

Ernst

Tasha, I can see why you are confused over if we agree or not. Frankly, I'm not sure myself. I do know that I'm still learning, so I think that's good. The question seems to be what historic construction best resembles the gambesons shown in the Macijowski? I have mentioned seeng a "bump" at the sho...

Ernst

Tasha, I'm always pleased to get the opinions of seamstresses and tailors when discussin linen armors, but I fail to understand your point on sleeve caps. Where is the curved top on the sleeve in a Nockert Type 1-5 tunic? Fernando de la Cerda's al-jubbah (from which we derive jupon) certainly has de...

Ernst

The Tourney of Windsor (1280?) has accounts for the use of baleen swords covered with silver gilt parchment. I don't know how early wood wasters appear though.

Ernst

noblesse oblige

Ernst

Ted Monnich had an article on historic construction of escutcheons back in TI #104 in Fall of '92. Most surviving examples have an outer covering of leather covered with gesso. The gesso is often raised in shallow relief with the heraldic design. Other shields use gesso soaked linen appliques or emb...

Ernst

You don't want to be a "history freak" but you want "practical" armor taking advantage of superior modern materials? Yet you didn't buy kevlar, xylon, or spectra, but linen and silk. Might I suggest that a study of historic methods is not bad at all. The historic method was derived by men whose live...

Ernst

I am pleased to see this discussion bring more views to the table. On the issue of separate sleeves, it is worth noting that the Mac images which show gambesons on men with upraised arms show no gap in protection in the arm pit. In fact, the "heavy line" which leads Alfred to believe that two gambes...

Ernst

carlyle, I think you have done an excellent job in articulating why you believe the heavy line at the sleeve join indicates two padded defenses are being worn, Alfred. Again, I find myself in disagreement with this opinion, although I cannot disprove it. My reasoning that only one gambeson is repres...

Ernst

I lean toward the former, and there is some evidence to support this -- namely, that there are depictions without sleeves, as well as sleeved depictions where the sleeve and body are of different colors. Not conclusive, but indicative. Carlyle, While I am in general agreement with your response, I ...

Ernst

Might I offer a suggestion based on personal experience from trying to get a device past the SCA heralds? Never - NEVER - paint or use a submitted device until after it has been accepted. I fought with one submission on both escutcheon and surcoat while trying to get it through various levels of Her...

Ernst

I suppose in answer to the original question I should say that most people seem to attach their scales with quick rivets (Tandy 2-piece) to a suede or thin leather backing. My limited study would seem to show sewing scales to a fabric backing was more common. Sadly, the only Western surviving scale ...

Ernst

I've done both. Heavy fabric (10 oz duck cotton) with thick linen stitches was good for a while but took lots of maintenance. Rivetting to light leather (2-3 oz) was very flexible but rivets tore out eventually. Kel, I am curious as to the manner in which you stitched the scales to the fabrc base. ...

Ernst

I'll link to save typing. Comments on either forum are most welcome.

http://www.arador.com/discforums/index. ... f=8&t=1742

Ernst

I am always concerned with the confusion caused by bascinet terminology. By "pigface" do you mean having a visor which comes to an accute point (hound's mask) or something else? I'm certain you can find a good deal of variety in visors of circa 1420, and would be pleased if you could explain your un...

Ernst

I read in this thesis of bascinets covered in white leather. m I have always wondered what technique was used to decorate heaumes in the 13th century, e.g. the kneeling knight from the Westminster Bible or the examples in Ee.3.59. I had previously assumed the decoration was engraved, but now I wonde...

Ernst

If memory serves me, Dr. Alan Williams notes some mail was made of a very heterogeneous wire, and suggests it could have been drawn from a billet made from some welded or folded material. I suppose that in the early or High Middle Ages, helmets might have been made from such material if this was par...

Ernst

Perhaps I am in error, but I believe that all of the Wisby pair of plates use rivets which are peened, while brigandine nails are historically clenched. Wouldn't arming nails be incorrect for an accurate reproduction?

Ernst

My favorite hand cutter for 14g is ChannelLock 8" short nose cutting pliers. Leverage is the key. The longer the handle, the easier the cut. Also cutting as close to the pivot as possible increases leverage.

Ernst

German helmets were pressed in electrically heated dies. I don't know how to classify the work when the steel is cold, but the "hammer" and "anvil" are hot.

Ernst

I must admit this is one of the good questions which seems to bring little response. After reviewing lots of images, I feel that perhaps you and your friend are both right! That is to say, in this instance like so many others concerning mail, there does not seem to be one "right" way to do things. I...

Re: canvas or leather foundation?

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