The Armour Archive

Ernst

The equivalent of showing up on a modern battlefield with a Sharps rifle. It might still work, but why would you do that unless you're desperate?

Ernst

Also, it's perhaps worth noting that our pair of drummer boys might be considered to be in a 'non-combat' role. The older equipment that was still usable might just have kept getting passed down the food chain. Chef had asked about bascinets with nasals, which seem to be shown in the first third of ...

Ernst

From the 1397 Duke of Gloucester inventory: http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=180283 Itm j pallet de Lumbardy ove j viser p's ... ... xx.s. Item, 1 palet of Lombardy with 1 visor valued 20s. Adding to our confusion of the palet as distinguished from the helm and bascinet, th...

Ernst

Itm iij: habergeous dont deux de petit maille de Lumbardye Item, 3 haubergeons, of which two of small mail of Lombardy. I think it's simply a variant spelling of haubergeons , which are distinguished rather early on from hauberks . The etymology for hauberk indicates neck protection, so hauberks li...

Ernst

Thanks again to worldantiques for the tip. Source: http://archaeologydataservice.ac.uk/archiveDS/archiveDownload?t=arch-1132-1/dissemination/pdf/054/054_275_308.pdf https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_of_Woodstock,_1st_Duke_of_Gloucester Thomas of Woodstock, 1st Duke of Gloucester, 1st Earl of Buc...

Ernst

Conical tops start falling out of favor for more hemispehric helmet bowls in the 1180s. There are still some nasaled conicals around in the art from c. 1200. The mid-century Maciejowski Bible even shows some conical spangenhelms on the Amalekite drummers in folio 9v., though the depiction seems anac...

Ernst

If that's the intent, how would they describe a half-wedge-riveted, half-solid construction, demi-alta-nailing?

Ernst

So the small wings or winglets only cover the flanks, while the larger ones cover the back?

Ernst

Thank you. The relevant passages: Item, lego Thome Payuel nepoti meo equum meum dun, unum habergeon de alto clowour, ac unum basynet largiorem, cum le vyser et aventaille ad eundem, et quinque marcas argenti. Item, I leave to my grandson, Thomas Payuel, my dun horse, one haubergeon of high-nailing (...

Ernst

Comment deleted, since the subject has now been changed.

Ernst

Clearly not an armet, unless the meaning changes over time. The earliest reference he gives is the will of Fulk Pembridge in 1325: deux haberiouns, un healme, un bacinet, un aventail e un colret, un palet, un peire de espaudlers, un peire de gans de plate, quisseux e greves . 2 haubergeons, a helm, ...

Ernst

Randall, I still have to pick through the bits of armor siezed from Piers Gaveston and Edward II, and the bits not seized from Humphrey de Bohun. If you're aware of any other digital sources, please feel free to post the links.

Ernst

I wonder what the difference between the mail edgings (bordures) and aventail (ventails) might be. Is one closed while the other is an open drape? Is it merely a matter of length, or has the scribe merely grown tired of using 'ventail' over and over? Perhaps a bordure is the sort of mail that goes ...

Ernst

Yes, 22g.-24g. is useful for scales (gauntlet or otherwise), where there's a doubling due to the overlap, but it's too thin for most anything else.

Ernst

All of the mail seems to be in a poor state of repair, which is reflected in its valuation. I wonder what the difference between the mail edgings (bordures) and aventail (ventails) might be. Is one closed while the other is an open drape? Is it merely a matter of length, or has the scribe merely gro...

Ernst

Thanks to worldantiques for providing the source link! This listing places the valuation at the beginning in shillings (s.) and pence ( denarii -d.), and I have shortened the formulaic wording after the first few listings. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Bowet The pope had already appointed Rob...

Ernst

KtR -

http://digital.wlb-stuttgart.de/filegro ... 000192.jpg

Ernst

To argue against myself, the 1316 Inventory of King Louis X has Item 4. paires d'esperons garnis de soye, et 2. paires garnis de cuir. Item, 4 pair of spurs garnished with silk, and 2 pair garnished with leather. It's hard to imagine the silk and leather being a descriptor for anything but the spur ...

Ernst

For what style of helmet and/or crest?

Ernst

Most English pronunciation guides for armet show both the r and t being vocalized. The French is closer to "ah-may" rather then ar-may. Some British guides pronounce the r in French fashion and keep the t....

Ernst

I'm no expert in old French, or in Bavarian-Belgian accents of it. I certainly welcome any aid or suggestions in interpretation, which is one of the reasons I post here. You can see a number of people who have corrected and offered better translations for this on the "musekins" thread. I consider it...

Ernst

Sources: http://www.archive.org/stream/annalesvolume00monsgoog/annalesvolume00monsgoog_djvu.txt https://books.google.com/books?id=NF5AAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA147&lpg=PA147&dq=escut+des+armez+Monsigneur+le+conte+Willaume.+Item+,+ij+paires+%C2%AB+de+plattes+%C3%A0+jouster,+de+coy+li+une+est+couvierte+d%27un+no...

Ernst

I love the attention to detail in dressing-up the splints with the fleurs and wavy edges on the legs. What's the inspiration for the horizontal bands at the edge of the elbows and shoulders?

Looks like it will be a wonder to see when it's completed.

Ernst

I know there are some in Richardson, and the 1420 Louvre inventory has some old ones listed as parts of complete leather harnesses.

Ernst

Perhaps there were no distinguishing differences in construction, or perhaps with less mail to inventory, there seemed to be little reason to differentiate it. There's not much interest in describing distinguishing characteristics when you only have one of each to count. Item 1 coat works well enoug...

Ernst

Source: https://books.google.com/books?id=f_ZTAAAAcAAJ&lpg=PA354&ots=qwYOCK9quO&dq=1322%20Inventory%20of%20Goods%20of%20Roger%20de%20Mortimer%2C%20Wigmore%20Castle&pg=PA359#v=onepage&q=1322%20Inventory%20of%20Goods%20of%20Roger%20de%20Mortimer,%20Wigmore%20Castle&f=false https://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

Ernst

And then there's inflation on top of currency exchange rates.... Thanks for the note, to keep me honest. I think having contemporary values listed is useful for comparison, but it does fall apart when comparing different countries or times. Whole dissertations have been written on the expense of arm...

Ernst

Item ii bras et uns gousses iiiil. Item 2 sleeves (of mail) and a gusset. 4 l. Item ii gorgeretes pisaines xxxs. Item, 2 Pisane gorgets. 30s. Ok, so this pushes the dating for separate maille sleeves at 1302. Nice. Although it doesn't say "of mail", it falls in with other mail items, and given the ...

Ernst

Source, with translation into English by F.M. Kelly, though I've tried my hand at it. Breaks in the listings are mine. https://books.google.com/books?id=M8s-AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA466#v=onepage&q=arbalestes%20de%20cor&f=false Values given in l. (livres) and s. (sols or sous), pounds and shillings by any othe...

Ernst

Anyone have ideas on this one?

Item, une estivalles de plates couviers de blanc cuir.
Item, an "estivalles" of plates covered with white leather. (I'm at a loss, here.)

Ernst

We have several European remaining examples of round rivets in mail for the medieval period but as is so often the case linking terms is complex more often than not. Yes, there are some examples of round riveted mail but are there any examples of all round riveted mail without alternating rows of s...

Ernst

As I stated before, my primary disagreement with that statement lies in the last sentence. How early do you consider early? Ciumeşti Celt or Rome? There is a fair amount of pre-medieval mail, though there is almost no extant mail from the earliest period.

Ernst

A couple more images from IMAREAL.
1445-1450, Master of Laufen, lower right, thief in green. A two-tone tunic?

Ernst

1. How do you date mail reliably to that time period?
2. Is there any all-riveted mail with round rivets, at all? From any period?
3. I don't know. That's why I think it might be possible.

Ernst

From the 1322, Count of Flanders inventory Item, un bachinet a visière et le colerete deriere et deus demi visières qui y apertienent. Item, a bascinet with visor and collar in the back, and two half visors which are related to it. So one bascinet with a visor and two interchangeable half visors. I'...

Re: How long were Norman type nasals used?

Re: How long were Norman type nasals used?

Re: Document: 1423, THE ARMOUR. AND ARMS of HENRY BOWET.

Re: Document: 1397 Duke of Gloucester

Document: 1397 Duke of Gloucester

Re: How long were Norman type nasals used?

Re: Document: THE WILL OF SIR JOHN DE FOXLE, 1378

Re: Document: THE ARMOUR. AND ARMS of HENRY BOWET, 1423

Re: Document: THE WILL OF SIR JOHN DE FOXLE, 1378

Re: Document: INVENTORY OF OF ROGER DE MORTIMER, 1322

Re: Document: THE ARMOUR. AND ARMS of HENRY BOWET, 1423

Re: Document: THE ARMOUR. AND ARMS of HENRY BOWET, 1423

Re: Document: THE ARMOUR. AND ARMS of HENRY BOWET, 1423

Re: Rivet Hole Reinforcement for Thin Plate

Re: Document: THE ARMOUR. AND ARMS of HENRY BOWET, 1423

Re: Document: THE ARMOUR. AND ARMS of HENRY BOWET, 1423

Re: Hammers and tools and things

Re: Fabric covered helms?

Re: Feather plumes

Re: You say bascin-AY, I say bascin-ET

Re: Document: 1357 Count of Hainaut

Document: 1357 Count of Hainaut

Re: 1350-1360 armour - full set by Piotr Feret

Re: Document: 1302 Constable of France

Re: Document: 1302 Constable of France

Document: 1322 Earl of March

Re: Document: 1302 Constable of France

Re: Document: 1302 Constable of France

Document: 1302 Constable of France

Re: Document: 1322 Count of Flanders

Re: Document: 1316 King Louis X of France

Re: Document: 1316 King Louis X of France

Re: Comfortable and Flexible, suspending your legs

Re: Document: 1316 King Louis X of France

Re: Early barbute, keyhole visors, aventails and face protec