The Armour Archive

Ernst

I've seen occularia in kettle hats, but none of which are barred before this. The triangular neck guard on the rear shows up in a few sources from the 1360s and 70s, but I don't recall seeing one on a kettle hat. This thread had a couple of examples. http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB3/viewtopic....

Ernst

my persona is an 12th century Norman /Crusader Templar.....but there are times when i want to wear the lammelar over a tunic so it can be seen VS. just trying to be as period as possible You already know what you need to do: i plan on going to a chain hauberk soon as funds are available. Stop tryin...

Ernst

Smiths practice smithery smiting smithcraft in their smithy.

Ernst

Mac has done some experimentation on the riveting process, and I'm incline to agree that "rivets" might be cut from a length of wire after insertion. The tongs might be a multi-tool, with one side like an end-cutter, and the other side used to set the "rivet". It's certainly easier to handle a small...

Ernst

See Mac's previous thread for all known images: http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=174051 I don't know if wrought iron rings can be cold swaged with tongs alone. Clearly something is shaping the overlap on rings with the "watershed" at the time the rivet is closed, insuring t...

Ernst

There is some evidence for the English using mail strips sewn to the sleeve in instead of jack chains. From the Scottish Jacks thread: http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=178394 Report of England made by Giovanni Michiel, late Ambassador to Queen Mary and King Philip, to the V...

Ernst

The problem being that the tongs shown in most manuscripts and etchings have quite long handles. This is not to say that some rings weren't swaged or coined, as we have inscribed rings proving it was done.

Ernst

Some evidence for a hand-held drift and need for a small hammer exists. The hammer might serve multiple functions, though.

: Jost Amman punch.jpg (78.18 KiB) Viewed 2291 times

: Panzermacher's table.jpg (69.75 KiB) Viewed 2291 times

Ernst

Timber frame construction often uses hexagonal or octagonal trennels (trenails) in round holes.

Ernst

Thun Sketchbook, Kolman Helmschmied, 1475-1520. HRE

Ernst

Tipi anyone?
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8 ... /f288.item

: BNF Français 2813 fo140v.jpg (73.16 KiB) Viewed 68 times

Ernst

For reference.
http://www.metmuseum.org/collection/the ... rch/463378

Ernst

Gustovic!

Those are really interesting, since they show the nose covered, but a gap between the helmet and mail. These miniatures have an earlier date than is usually ascribed to these items. Great find, sir.

Ernst

Perhaps some overlap when we were discussing the Statenplein/Dordrecht leather fingers?
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=172691

Ernst

If that's correct concerning the ankle, then the white quatrefoils at the elbows are simply larger versions. So a flower patterned cup to cover a flexed joint? Could the one at the ankle be in the correct location, but cupping inward rather than outward? I mentioned it on the panzerarms thread, but ...

Ernst

Here's the higher-resolution folio in the Holkham with zoom: http://www.bl.uk/manuscripts/Viewer.aspx?ref=add_ms_47682_f040r Not seeing any quilting lines, though one example has rivets. The De Lisle Psalter , BL Arundel 8, fo.125r, 1308-1340 has similar cinquefoils at the ankles of the presumed pan...

Ernst

This thread might provide some interesting examples: http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=169658 The problem is that many manuscripts are not precisely dated. Often we see something listed as c.1300 (1290-1310?), or 1275-1325. That makes it difficult to prove if it is ≤ 1300 vs...

Ernst

The image is from a Breviary, BNF Latin 10483, fo.53r, 1323-1326. Per the BNF, the bas-de-page allegorical figures illustrate sacrament of penance: Justice with her scales to the right, and Injustice, on the left at the gallows. Since the major illustration on the page is paired with Psalm 97 (Vulga...

Ernst

Love the tape strapping! Jeff does outstanding work, and I'm sure it will be even more stunning when complete.

Ernst

Wood Kern wrote:Off the top of my head. Some of the bascinets from the Romance of Alexander are similar in height.

There are also similar looking pairs of plates in that manuscript.

: Bodley MS 264 fo.66r-dtl.jpg (55.13 KiB) Viewed 232 times

Ernst

Cool. So how many other absurd things are in the marginalia of that manuscript? Romance of Alexander includes rabbits hunting people with crossbows. Fun, but not likely to have occurred for most people of the time. Wade Good question. It's really not loaded down with absurd things, especially when ...

Ernst

Breviary, BNF Latin 10483, fo. 105v, marginalia, 1323-1326, France.

: BNF Latin 10483 fo105v.jpg (14.73 KiB) Viewed 344 times

I wonder if the brass kettle is better than an iron one? Earliest documentation for a Freon-22 helmet?

Ernst

Though it's 17th century Turkish rather than European, MET 36.25.33 shows evidence of a faceted (hexagonal) drift with round rivets. You could sharpen up an Allen wrench. It's important to remember there are multiple methods and tools being used to accomplish the same goal by different makers in dif...

Ernst

I forgot to add the Tofta image. It's seriously downsized. Here's a fine example of round rivet, demi-riveted mail from the mid-13th century. There just isn't any "extra hole" around the rivet to suggest an oblong drift shape.

: Tofta Fig.10.png (91.69 KiB) Viewed 2405 times

-Mart

Ernst

Not all depictions show the stick so far forward, like this example from the Manesse Codex.

Ernst

Most of the photos I took at Wade's were of empty holes. The cross section for the drift used with wedge rivets has a section similar to a wood chisel's. Determining the shape of the drift used in conjunction with round rivets is more difficult to determine. The Tofta coif ring sectioning doesn't se...

Ernst

The Historiated initial A is the beginning of the Book of Judges: http://manuscrits-medievaux.bm-grenoble.fr/fs_1548.jpg Juges 1:1 Après la mort de Josué, les enfants d'Israël consultèrent l'Eternel, en disant: Qui de nous montera le premier contre les Cananéens, pour les attaquer? KJV Now after the...

Ernst

Look over the Iona Abbey effigies (fairly contemporary with the Earl) and tell me if anything there (lots of stuff that's linearly textured like that) looks like mail. Mail standards or aventails, coupled with the quilted jack seems to be the intent, though the mail is not usually finely carved. ht...

Ernst

They are strangely drawn, aren't they. The hinges seem oddly offset, like they are on an added expansion plate. Additionally, some have strips of red which might indicate some sort of leathers.

Maybe some of the folks who deal with plate more than mail can offer a good idea?

Ernst

The 13th century Tofta coif uses punched rings with high phosphorus content. The riveted rings are wrought iron, but the rivets also have high p-content.

Ernst

The other thread mentions visible rivets. Here's a better photo, and I'm not seeing any. http://www.tara.tcd.ie/xmlui/bitstream/handle/2262/25789/ertk1725.jpg;jsessionid=0BC96FBAB52692F74965E43CD1F90CD6?sequence=1 Gowran Church, Gowran, County Kilkenny - Effigy of a Butler Knight http://www.tara.tcd...

Ernst

1305 14th century, or 1400 14th century? Belt for closing a surcoat, wearing with civilian clothes, suspending a sword, etc. I suspect you'll get different answers depending on time, place, and function.

Ernst

The Swedish wills bother me, as the testator leaves a lendener, but no mail chausses or other leg harness: Horses, spaulders, plates, helms and kettle hats, lendeners..... no aketons, nor leg armor? The first and third wills do seem to have leg armour in them. - stikchata husu - beenbiaergh I check...

Ernst

Although it's several decades later, similar breastplates are shown in Trinity College, Dublin, MS 1440, The Book of De Burgos , c.1571-1580. http://digitalcollections.tcd.ie/home/#folder_id=1202&pidtopage=MS1440_05&entry_point=5 Fo.19r, Riocard mór mac Uilliam cungcur http://digitalcollections.tcd....

Ernst

The pisan/standard certainly looks like mail to my eye. The body armor looks like it's constructed of lames, like a fauld. Perhaps a form of anime breastplate?

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