The Armour Archive

Ernst

Yeah, 1420 seems ok, based on the other things in the image. How many examples does Galfrid have now? 12,062 on manuscript miniatures, but he hasn't done an upgrade since taking his new job. I know he's already got more to add. Oddly enough, I have seen the wounded man miniature in the second part ...

Ernst

Ian,
I think Bertus has given us good information that this was quilted in the same manner as the gambeson. Running the stitching horizontally would tend to allow the lendener to roll, so it seems that vertical stitching lines are in order.

Ernst

A number of these strapped-on breastplates have interesting fluting at the belly. Perhaps a proto-kastenbrust?

: Welcome Apocalypse fo.9r-1dtl (222x350).jpg (97.92 KiB) Viewed 852 times

: Wellcome Apocalypse fo.15r-dtl (222x365).jpg (99.07 KiB) Viewed 852 times

Ernst

I had to seriously downsize the download to be able to post it. 1420 seems reasonable to me. Thanks for the manuscript link: One more to send to Galfrid.

: Wellcome Apocalypse fo.24v (238x250).jpg (93.5 KiB) Viewed 856 times

Ernst

Meanwhile the Spanish prefer the Romanesque rounded bottom to the inverted Gothic arch.... http://lh4.ggpht.com/_DJujVtQXLBo/TDRujK9TFbI/AAAAAAAABoE/xL2w1MeXCic/post-29-1172131991.jpg http://manuscriptminiatures.com/media/cache/manuscriptminiatures.com/original/141-9_gallery.jpg http://armourinart.c...

Ernst

There are the Italian "keyhole" visors which are roughly contemporary.
http://armourinart.com/5046/15747/

Ernst

There are armors for children in the museums. Wade Allen has done a long string of armors for his son as he grew. I made a mail shirt for my youngest when he was a toddler that he wouldn't take off for hours. Anything works, but be aware of the differences in proportion between young and mature bodi...

Ernst

You can check Effigies and Brasses as well. A little checking on the location (although the naming is usually a giveaway) of Belgian effigies to determine if they are Flemish or Waloon, and .... https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/32/Provinces_of_Belgium.svg/400px-Provinces_of_Bel...

Ernst

I'm fairly certain he's referring to Bodley MS 264. Some of the images are on Manuscript Miniatures, but not all.

http://image.ox.ac.uk/show?collection=b ... =msbodl264

http://manuscriptminiatures.com/search/ ... cript=4373

Ernst

Somehow I suspect the elmo Farina was not made from tempered steel like the German stahlhelm.

Ernst

Ok, I have not studied Old Norse either, so lets put that one aside until someone who has pipes up. I think that Old Norse björg is related to Modern German burg. Ein blat is definitely singular. There is another passage in Guilliame book 11 Tot ferri sua membra plicis, tot quisque patenis Pectora,...

Ernst

Since Gerhard von Liebau brought up Heinrich von dem Türlin's Diu Crône from 1220-1230 in another thread: http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=178711 We have Sir Kay girding his lendener, along with a buckram gambeson adding to Bertus' two previous 13th century sources. Her Kei...

Ernst

What do people make of the helmets here? Specifically what is being represented in the back of the head. Odd sugarloafs? Bascinets with face masks? Compare with the miniature on fo.67r from the same manuscript. http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4226/7711/ I suspect that it's the back plate of the sug...

Ernst

Dupras goes to some length about the varying marks on the Avant harness, even without the helm. One element which points to a clear division is the number of different marks found on homogenous suits of armour such as the ‘Avant’ armour in the Kelvingrove collection, Glasgow. There are fifty-one mar...

Ernst

When I switched to a Klapvisor Bascinet from a helm with a bar grill I didn't feel like I was losing vision except at the very beginning. How often are you really looking at someone's legs in the split seconds of a fight? I actually had more difficulty seeing when doing stuff like putting on my shi...

Ernst

In BNF Francais 343, many knights wear a peculiar type of shallow visor with their centre-point bascinets. I cannot recall many other depictions of them, but Italian documents mention visors which were piccole , arrotate , not pontutte , or not grandi . Piccole seems most likely to be piccolo , sma...

Ernst

http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k953674/f407.image
Item 229 might also be of interest as a complete harness.

Ernst

Sean, I'm sure you're aware of items in Richardson's thesis which are stored separately -- arms with arms, legs with legs -- which are likely considered part of the same harness. The 1353 Rothwell receipt has 106 pairs of vambraces , 2 of iron with latten couters, 4 covered in cloth of Cologne, 240 ...

Ernst

There are a number of good sources in the IWTB a Hospitaller 1230-1250 thread. http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=101765 The best information for the shape of cross: http://www.orderstjohn.org/osj/cross.htm So no "Maltese cross" that early, but something more akin to the cross Mo...

Ernst

I'm feeling like an idiot. I searched for ger throughout the text. Google translate sometimes seems to translate it as yeast and other times as make . The modern Icelandic equivalents are ger and gera . :oops: :oops: :oops: If nothing else, I've determined that the translation to stouter canvas for ...

Ernst

Thanks. I've got two controlled samples in crocks now, one in plain water and the other with yeast. Perhaps there's enough starch left in the flax to let the yeast do something besides die, though it seems likely that this passage might simply refer to the finer quality of linen obtained through a d...

Ernst

I have re-visited the passages in the Kings Mirror regarding the use of "blacked" linen for gambesons, cuisses, and horse coverings. For the most part, I have used Google Translation using Icelandic for the Old Norse. In Chapter 8 we have this: En þenna um búnað þarf maðrinn sjálf að hafa: góðar hos...

Ernst

Perhaps we should examine lathe images for turning chess pieces, or small pieces of metal? It's interesting to me that the brass vervelles seem to have feet or bases while the iron ones sometimes do not. The Coburg bascinet's iron vervelles also have those little bases which makes me think they are ...

Ernst

The MET holds some 19th century fakes or forgeries, but has disabled the large images. It makes it harder to discern how the forgeries differ from the actual examples. http://www.metmuseum.org/collection/the-collection-online/search/26883 http://www.metmuseum.org/collection/the-collection-online/sea...

Ernst

Some of the tube vervelles: I'd call those sheet metal, rather than "tube" vervelles, and made rather like you'd make hinges. Most modern references only seem to distinguish vervelles as tubes or posts. Those aren't posts, so usually fall into the tubes category, though you seem correct in the appa...

Ernst

MET 04.3.241 "Joan of Arc" bascinet
1375-1425
http://www.metmuseum.org/collection/the ... arch/21988

: MET 04.3.241-vervellesA.jpg (82.84 KiB) Viewed 645 times

: MET 04.3.241-vervellesB.jpg (69.2 KiB) Viewed 645 times

: MET 04.3.241-vervellesC.jpg (71.41 KiB) Viewed 645 times

Ernst

MET 29.158.29a
c. 1400
http://www.metmuseum.org/collection/the ... arch/34272

: MET 29.158.29a-vervelles.jpg (51.4 KiB) Viewed 646 times

: MET 29.158.29a-vervellesB.jpg (84.6 KiB) Viewed 646 times

: MET 29.158.29a-vervellesC.jpg (61.56 KiB) Viewed 646 times

Ernst

MET 04.3.235a
1375-1400
http://www.metmuseum.org/collection/the ... arch/21986

: MET 04.3.235a-vervelles.jpg (64.3 KiB) Viewed 650 times

: MET 04.3.235a-vervelles2.jpg (52.25 KiB) Viewed 650 times

Ernst

Some of the tube vervelles:

: Ref_arm_1542a.jpg (2.21 KiB) Viewed 694 times

: Ref_arm_1542b.jpg (2.9 KiB) Viewed 694 times

: Ref_arm_1561a.jpg (1.24 KiB) Viewed 694 times

Ernst

Goll:

RA IV.470 Basinet - the 'Lyle basinet'
Italian, c. 1380-1400

The vervelles are of iron, pierced for the cord and each with a
shaped brass strip soldered over top. When the aventail is in place no iron is visible,
leading to the belief that they are of solid brass.

: Goll Vervelles.jpg (28.87 KiB) Viewed 695 times

Ernst

More armet vervelles
http://www.metmuseum.org/collection/the ... arch/24686

Ernst

Armet vervelles, brass, very rough shape. http://www.metmuseum.org/collection/the-collection-online/search/23227 Picture size restrictions make it difficult to show more than two or three at a time on this forum. MET 29.158.5-vervelles.jpg MET 29.158.5-vervelles (2).jpg The tube vervelles are anothe...

Ernst

Gustovic wrote:Or perhaps I'm missing another option?

I suspect that looking for the one true way™ in which anything was done is a futile search. I've seen plenty of high resolution photos of vervelles from the Metropolitan, Goll, etc. and it looks like there were multiple ways of making them.

Ernst

I suspect pulling the pins with a chain or rope might be safer.

Ernst

Reventlov's example is new to me as well.

Signo has information on the keyhole visor in the Stibbert, IIRC.

Re: Wellcome Apocalypse, strapped-on breastplates "c.1420"(?

Re: Comfortable and Flexible, suspending your legs

Re: Wellcome Apocalypse, strapped-on breastplates "c.1420"(?

Re: Wellcome Apocalypse, strapped-on breastplates "c.1420"(?

Re: Drawing the Perfect Heater Curve

Re: Churburg visors

Re: Kids armour

Re: Stupid Sexy Flanders (Seeking Flemish 14c armor refs)

Re: Stupid Sexy Flanders (Seeking Flemish 14c armor refs)

Re: WWI Italian body armor

Re: Interesting Armour Quotes from "The Crown" c. 1230

Re: Comfortable and Flexible, suspending your maille chausse

Re: Stupid Sexy Flanders (Seeking Flemish 14c armor refs)

Re: The idea of a "composite armour"

Re: Questions about fighting in great helms

Re: Small Visors in the Queste del Saint Graal

Re: The idea of a "composite armour"

Re: The idea of a "composite armour"

Re: Evolution of crosses worn in the crusades?

Re: Fermented or starched?

Re: Fermented or starched?

Fermented or starched?

Re: Vervelles, how they were made?

Re: Vervelles, how they were made?

Re: Vervelles, how they were made?

Re: Vervelles, how they were made?

Re: Vervelles, how they were made?

Re: Vervelles, how they were made?

Re: Vervelles, how they were made?

Re: Vervelles, how they were made?

Re: Vervelles, how they were made?

Re: Vervelles, how they were made?

Re: Vervelles, how they were made?

Re: Closing the camp gate - hardcore

Re: Small Visors in the Queste del Saint Graal