The Armour Archive

Galfrid atte grene

Here's a couple photos. Let me first note that there are no surviving examples of this kind of garment - this is just my interpretation based on the art of the period and as such should not be considered a definitive method or design. From the front. Careful tailoring combined with the side lacing a...

Galfrid atte grene

Tailoress: Yes, sorry, my comparison was based only on the visor. mackenzie: It appears to be so. I'm not well versed in the various styles of 15th century armour though, so I can't say for sure. Eamonn: The link is correct. Take a look to the far right in that photo. I have some other shots but I c...

Galfrid atte grene

JoJo, that is how I did mine - hourglass shape, laced at the sides. I cut four panels similar to Keegan - top and bottom, back and front, with the seam at the waist (following the line of my globose breastplate). I had to use 4 darts on the front top panel to make it fit the globose, and two on the ...

Galfrid atte grene

A couple updates: Found more than half of the "unknown monuments" shown above with the help of folks on another forum. Just 3 more to go. Also added 20 new monuments and put in additional pictures for a score more. I got my hands on a digital copy of a book I've been trying to view for 2 y...

Galfrid atte grene

Their pattern is for the item known as the Black Prince Jupon, which is actually a different piece than the one show on the effigy, which is the center of this discussion. JoJo: These have to be tailored tightly to get the right look, but the actual pattern is simple enough, you could come up with s...

Galfrid atte grene

Small

Galfrid atte grene

Galfrid, that's amazing work and exactly of the style I was looking to make. Do you happen to have any other pictures of it that you'd like to share? Hey Lucian, there isn't much else to see, its a pretty straightforward piece. If you're curious about a particular part I could try to snap some othe...

Galfrid atte grene

There's also a step by step method outlined in TOMAR that works great. I had success the first time I tried it.

Galfrid atte grene

I made one that I wear regularly with my kit in place of a gorget. The mail shape is that of a small aventail - cylinder followed by conical section. Inside there is some thin leather lining that rolls over the top edge with a scallop shape (as seen on many effigies). Then there are two steel plates...

Galfrid atte grene

Hi Piers, I don't think I suggested he take a particular course of action. I did mention the commonly accepted opinion in the US regarding the issue of copyright on reproductions of public domain works, and cited an well-known organization that has distributed "copyrighted" images of publi...

Galfrid atte grene

Karen, it is true there will always be poorly attributed images on Wikimedia but this is really just a product of the "anyone can edit" idea, not a reflection of lax policy. I read about their recent experiment using images by arrangement with an institution - but I'm not sure if the subje...

Galfrid atte grene

Nearly all facsimiles of manuscripts carry a copyright of some sort. Whether or not this is enforceable depends on your country and the country where the manuscript resides. For example, in the United States, a copy of a manuscript image can't be copyrighted, but in the UK, it can (which is why the ...

Galfrid atte grene

Fantastic group. They all look excellent. The armour itself isn't super high quality (and it probably shouldn't be given their portrayals and the abuse it apparently sees) but their soft kits really shine. Shows what some motivation can do. And thats possible in the SCA too ...

Galfrid atte grene

In conclusion, I would like to add that I believe that a full mail chausse under a closed greave and closed cuisse is very unlikely. Such a thing would be heavy, bulky, uncomfortable, and unnecessary. Hi Mac, what is your opinion on a full mail sleeve under closed vambraces and/or rerebraces? Same ...

Galfrid atte grene

Its centuries old though, the originals are absolutely in the public domain. And, in the USA at least, simple scans of public domain material cannot be copyrighted.

Galfrid atte grene

Hi Alexander, thats an interesting effigy. It is strangely dated late 14th century, which can't be right based on the armour style, I'm guessing its actually late 15th, which is past my cutoff date for inclusion on the site. There are effigies in the US (most notably in the MET in NYC) but all the e...

Galfrid atte grene

And I still can't think of any full or even partial chausses under plate legharness. They seem to have figured out that cased greaves work particularly well if they are tailored about as close as a coat of paint. If by partial you mean at least voider-like patches, there are many many examples in a...

Galfrid atte grene

Hmm, I disagree. What makes you think that? Yes, there are effigies with half sleeves that go over arms, but also plenty that show mail in the bend of otherwise cased arms.

Galfrid atte grene

Thanks for the additional thoughts. This is a tricky subject. The arm may be more functionally important for battle, but there are examples in art of men more armoured in the legs than the arms, and greaves were worn long before any plate defense on the arm. I also see many examples on effigies of m...

Galfrid atte grene

Eamonn: Yeah, Hofer's is really interesting. Its also one of the earliest depictions of an armet as well. Claude Blair seems to think its date is correct. I too wonder what that thing on the right is. JoJo: I don't have a date, but I think your guess is probably very close. Its a cool one because of...

Galfrid atte grene

Just updated the site again. 30 more martial effigies and a few civilian as well. Its definitely getting much harder to find new monuments to add. This update includes monuments from Spain, France, Germany, Belgium, and England as well as images from my oldest source, Les mÃ©moriaux d'Antoine de Suc...

Galfrid atte grene

Sure, the French had such garments, but I'm not sure I'd say it was usual (at least no more than the tight fitting version), based on the art I've seen. For example, a quick survey of effigies of the period reveals mostly the "English" style - though sometimes with really short sleeves. Il...

Galfrid atte grene

What are you basing that on? Art from France and Italy is rife with this style of tight fitting jupon.

Galfrid atte grene

Well, just because you've never seen it does't mean there aren't depictions.

The topic mentions effigies that show this feature.

Galfrid atte grene

These jupons are seen in art throughout Europe in the late 14th century, alongside other styles.

Exactly how common is difficult to determine for a number of reasons.

Galfrid atte grene

Konstantin, have you seen mail patches on the legs in any period? I know in the 15th a similar thing is done for the arms, but I haven't seen it for the legs. I'm personally inclined to think that full mail chausses were worn, since this was the case with the rest of the body. I don't think mail ove...

Galfrid atte grene

The pin also prevents the greaves or upper leg from twisting out of alignment - especially important when there is a prominent center crease.

I use the pin and strap method on my legs and it works great.

Galfrid atte grene

It is from KA 20 - Spieghel Historiael (1325 - 1335). Doesn't particularly look like a center-grip to me, though.

Galfrid atte grene

Those guys are almost certainly wearing mail and some sort of plate body armour under there. I'm not sure why you have it labeled as 1358 though, the British Library dates it as 1380-1400. That is the date mentioned on "The Great Warbow" m That's the date of the jacquerie revolt in France...

Galfrid atte grene

Those guys are almost certainly wearing mail and some sort of plate body armour under there.

I'm not sure why you have it labeled as 1358 though, the British Library dates it as 1380-1400.

Galfrid atte grene

At the very least, the stated attribution is entirely incorrect. There is some debate as to whom it represents (should it even be legitimate). There's a decent amount of discussion in literature about the piece, maybe I'll look it up later.

Galfrid atte grene

Len Parker wrote:Galfrid, it was actually the larger image of Thomas Cheyne at Themcs that looks convincingly like scales. They reminded me of the scales herehttp://www.tforum.info/forum/index.php?showtopic=30587

Yeah, thats the one I was referring to.

Galfrid atte grene

Hi Len, good point. Those factors together are compelling. I've been thinking about this all day and one of the things I considered was size. These scales would have to be relatively long and narrow to hide the bottoms of the next row up. Not a deal breaker but something to think about. There are th...

Galfrid atte grene

Be careful of Arderne, like the note on that page says, it was restored/recarved in the 19th century so that kind of detail probably isn't reliable.

Galfrid atte grene

Konstantine: What evidence do we have of mail faulds in the 14th? (separate from hawberk) I know the Churburg suit has one but I'm not sure if it actually belongs with the rest since I believe its a composite suit.

Len: I'd interpret those as dags on the jupon, but I see where you're coming from.