The Armour Archive

Galfrid atte grene

Unlikely. That was the year of his death, I would guess that the effigy was created later.

Galfrid atte grene

There is one photographed extant piece in part 1 of Laking's series on arms and armour, available online here.

Galfrid atte grene

This is a fantastic, inspiring event and I always love watching it. Thank you to the organizers and participants.

Galfrid atte grene

This is really nice work. Thank you for sharing.

Galfrid atte grene

I bought from McMaster for my kit, it was perfect to shape and the price was reasonable. Downside: biggest they sell is 2x1 ft.

Galfrid atte grene

Hi Wilhelm, I think you can. You point it to the mail. Though anecdotal and not proof, I do this with my harness and it works great. Finally, there are many effigies depicting a full mail sleeve from at least the 3/4 length, up through the armpit, worn with a full articulated arm.

Galfrid atte grene

I would disagree with that, somewhat. I'd say the majority of effigies from all of Europe show, if anything, the opposite (the mail/plate configuration & sleeve length). But then again, there are more sources than just effigies that I am unfamiliar with - I'd be interested to learn more.

Galfrid atte grene

Depends somewhat on the location and time. I've commonly seen the splinted arms over the sleeve but examples of the other configurations you mentioned may be out there - again, probably region/time specific.

Galfrid atte grene

Have you got another photo to see the completed kit more clearly? I love the action shot but would be interested in seeing some of the details.

Galfrid atte grene

I've seen one fragment of an effigy or statue that shows a point tied through the toe of the sabaton, but no others showing that method - anyone have additional evidence? Could be just my bad. I assumed it was fairly common. Well, I bet there are more examples. I just realized (based on the prior p...

Galfrid atte grene

I've seen one fragment of an effigy or statue that shows a point tied through the toe of the sabaton, but no others showing that method - anyone have additional evidence?

Galfrid atte grene

Looks good so far. Will you be adding an inlay of some sort? Be sure to get some extras cast. My brass plaques bend pretty easily when hit, and they are fairly solid pieces.

Galfrid atte grene

I've only experienced light "chew", on both steel arms and legs, and I think that was mostly due to the rivets, as Kel mentions.

Galfrid atte grene

Interesting, nice work. I had similar trouble casting a wide, flat piece, though I used a different medium. I think the 4"x3" size is a little on the large side, but there are a few depictions of pretty large belts.

Galfrid atte grene

Hi James, could you suggest one or two pieces to look at that illustrate loose mail in mid-14th Germany?

Galfrid atte grene

I agree with Audax. Judging by effigies, always mail under plate - if plate was worn at all - many show nothing but mail on the arms, even through 1360. Keep in mind that a haubergon (eg, short sleeved) is pretty much never depicted on effigies of this general time and place, they always wear full l...

Galfrid atte grene

Thanks for the comments, guys! Out of curiousity, did you make the plaque belt? Yes, I did. It is sand cast brass with vitreous enamel inlays. BTW, where are you living these days? Pittsburgh still? Hey Joachim - just got a job in NYC. I'm moving there next week. See you around! (snip - various comm...

Galfrid atte grene

My new SCA late 14th century English kit. Mostly made by me. Mostly stainless spring steel.

Galfrid atte grene

http://translate.google.com/ gives a decent translation.

It says the title is "On the walls of Terebovl", where Terebovl is the Ukrainian city, and the next line says the artist is Ф. Сипнєвскі.

Galfrid atte grene

I used to buckle my spaulders to the shoulder straps of my body armour - it works ok, but it can be limiting in terms of arm movement. Now I point them to my mail. Since they can move independently of the body armour I find I have more flexibility and less binding.

Galfrid atte grene

Here's something I just found: Froissart mentions a knight, Henry de Vaulx, of Champagne, who wears black armour in 1359. Still no evidence of black armour from the germanic area though. edit: Also, in A Distant Mirror , Tuchman mentions that the personal guard of Philippe d'Orleans, 19 men, were al...

Galfrid atte grene

here's a famous image of Edward III granting the principality of Aquitaine to the Black Prince in the mid c14; both appear to have blackened armor. My own theory is that that's where the Prince got his name-- perhaps because his effigy originally showed his armor as blackened. Thanks Cliff! Now I r...

Galfrid atte grene

I would be interested to see some evidence of blackened armour in the 14th. The effigy of Reginald de Cobham has seen extensive restoration and bears a modern paintjob, so I'd be careful using that as a definitive source.

Galfrid atte grene

Eamonn - Yep, it is an English effigy. It is from Horley, in Surrey. The heraldry is apparently that of his family.

Galfrid atte grene

3 more in England:
http://effigiesandbrasses.com/monuments/robert_hiltons/
http://effigiesandbrasses.com/monuments ... de_hilary/
http://effigiesandbrasses.com/monuments ... knevynton/ (probably imported from what is now France)

Galfrid atte grene

Weapon chains such as these are common on effigies in much of Europe, though you see fewer in the UK. The rivets at the bottom there are probably part of the coat of plates. This feature is seen on a number of other effigies as well.

Galfrid atte grene

You are well on your way to a nice kit. What area of Europe are you aiming for? I have some suggestions, but by the late 14th there is reasonable difference between the various regions.

Galfrid atte grene

Its http://archive.org , not .com

Galfrid atte grene

It is true that many English effigies feature this kind of knee, but I have never seen such a thing on a French effigy. However, French surcoats 1300-1350 are almost always depicted as ending below the knee, so there isn't much to see.

Galfrid atte grene

Scale was used in certain circumstances into the 17th century (in Europe), so they were pretty much used during most of the history of armour.

Galfrid atte grene

Here are my thoughts ... So, would there have been a backplate attached to a breastplate by the early to mid 1380's? I don't recall seeing any extant examples of it, but that doesn't mean it wasn't possible. There has been a lot of discussion on this topic on the Archive in the past, without strong ...

Galfrid atte grene

Apparently here: http://www.historischesmuseum.lu.ch/

Thanks for the info on that piece Bertus, very interesting.

Galfrid atte grene

I'd also be interested in an English translation of the rules. The automatic machine-translation is ok to get a general idea, but I'm sure it isn't really a great translation. Think of all the subtlety in the SCA rules that would be lost if they were translated to another language by an automated sy...

Galfrid atte grene

Sleeves would go under the arm harness if they're long, or over the rerebrace and under the spaulder if they're elbow or less. Second opinion on this would be good though, of course. I feel like sleeves shorter than full length are speculative as well, in Konstantine's words, at least for Germany. F...

Galfrid atte grene

Do you mean the one put out by the Antiquaries Society of London? There are a number of antiquarian journals. Many, many of these types of journals are now out of copyright and available online on a) Google Books and b) Archive.org. I'd start your search on those sites.

Re: Random Discussion on the Black Prince Effigy