The Armour Archive

Dan Howard

IIRC the first article to talk about duplex and triplex armour was in the Royal Armouries Arms and Armour Journal in 2005.

"Duplex armour: an unrecognised mode of construction", by de Reuck, Richardson, Starley, and Edge. pp 5-26.

Dan Howard

Andeerz wrote:You gonna rivet them shut?

This is one example in the Wallace Collection. Mail can be made completely rigid if the situation required it.

Dan Howard

Firstly, there is nothing to suggest that mail was always worn over a padded defense. To claim that the gambseon provided most of the piercing protection means that you first have to explain why gambesons were not always worn with mail. Secondly, mail was enormously expensive. Just the cost of produ...

Dan Howard

One of the things we know is that maille is great against cuts, and not so great against piercing. Historical mail is very good against piercing. Modern reconstructions are not so good. You should ask yourself why mail saw continuous use for nearly two thousand years when the most likely threat was...

Dan Howard

Sasha_Khan is right; caligae are shoes or boots, not sandals. They are more open than many modern examples but they are definitely classed as a shoe.

Dan Howard

The reference to 27 tunics remind me of some documentation I saw on roman linen armor; a layer of linen a layer of glue and another layer of linen.....continue until you are out of linen or sick of the project. In that case I think the guy used 20 yards of linen to make one breast plate, ug. It alm...

Dan Howard

The Sami had the right idea. Enchant clothing to resist weapons and you have the ideal concealed armour. Would be handy for a duellist.

Dan Howard

There are 61 different plates in Thordeman's chart and none of them match plate 8 or 8b from Polar Bear Forge. One of the Tibetan ones is close. I've seen one from 6th C BC Cyprus that is close too, but I can't find any that have those same lacing holes.

Dan Howard

My mind isn't made up about anything. As soon as someone comes up with credible evidence for Viking or Anglon-Saxon leather armour then I'll change my mind in an instant. A drawing that can have half a dozen different interpretations is hardly credible evidence. Laking did some wonderful work in thi...

Dan Howard

The one that is most commonly dredged up is the Sami-enchanted reindeer-hide shirts in Olav's Saga. Nobody has yet found anything that could be defined as leather armour.

Dan Howard

It looks just like the other examples that were first thought to have been butted until an x-ray revealed the rivets.

Dan Howard

looks just like a few other examples that have turned out to be riveted after x-ray analysis.

Dan Howard

There is plenty of evidence for A-S shields. None for leather armour.

Dan Howard

I'm pretty sure cu chulain wore linen armour, not leather. I've translated every line in the Iliad and know for certain that Homer doesn't mention leather armour anywhere in his book. Lion and leopard hides are sometimes worn as clothing but don't protect against weapons. The Nemean lion is a specia...

Dan Howard

Remember the normans destroyed a lot of anglo culture, and as far as finding leather armour... where are the of thousands of pieces of cuir boulli armour for men and horses that would have been produced during the middle ages? You don't need thousands of pieces of A-S leather armour to prove your p...

Dan Howard

Maybe because it isn't armor but a leather shirt.

Dan Howard

Ye gods. You'll have to give me a bit -- I'm not a Brit specialist by any stripe at all, and it'll take me some time to hunt down. I saw the quote from Gerard of Wales about it earlier today, on one of the other medieval type forums. A cite would be handy. The only source from Gerald I can think of...

Dan Howard

There is no archaeological evidence for A-S leather armour. No textual evidence for A-S leather armour. And no A-S illustrations that can't be interpreted half a dozen different ways. I don't see any armour at all in those illustrations except for helmets but they could be wearing a leather jerkin, ...

Dan Howard

Keegan Ingrassia wrote:In this case, the inserts are metal, with velvet cloth covering them.

In this case, the material is used as decoration. Cloth and leather both serve the same function in these constructions, which has nothing to do with reinforcing the armour.

Dan Howard

Why on earth would anyone try to "reinforce" metal armour with leather? Increasing the thickness of the plate by a fraction of a millimeter would be cheaper, lighter, and more effective. The only reason leather is used in these constructions is to help hold the plates together or as decora...

Dan Howard

I'm saying that the majority of paintings you find can not be used to confirm the existence of leather armour. Virtually everything you have turned up so far are more likely depicting cloth-covered metal armour but it is impossible to tell for sure. If you want a discussion about leather armour then...

Dan Howard

Len Parker wrote:Here's another from roelipilami. http://www.flickr.com/photos/roelipilami/2020208087/in/set-72157603168542128

Another what? Something brownish in colour. None of this is particularly convincing evidence for leather armour. My guess is that this last one is metal covered in cloth.

Dan Howard

The estimated price was only 250 pounds. Should be all the answer you need.

Dan Howard

and if this same thing was illustrated in a painting, you would think that it is leather. All you really have is something that is brownish in colour and a different brownish to the other brownish things in the painting. Which is leather? Which is cloth? Which has metal underneath? Which is paint? W...

Dan Howard

This perfectly illustrates my point. How are you supposed to tell that something in a painting is made of leather when you can't even do it in a photo of a real item?

Dan Howard

Len Parker wrote:Maybe this time it'll work http://visualiseur.bnf.fr/ConsulterElementNum?O=IFN-08011325&E=JPEG&Deb=1&Fin=1&Param=C

Is this a 19th century drawing of a real artifact or just a 19th C copy of an earlier painting?

Dan Howard

It is virtually impossible to look at a painting or carving and tell the material from which an item is made (assuming that the artist is attempting to depict a real item). Iconographical evidence can only really be used as supporting evidence for textual and archaeological evidence. Using iconograp...

Dan Howard

The only European instance of this armour is the "eyelet doublet" which doesn't appear until the Renaissance. It would be quicker and cheaper just to make butted mail than to attempt one of these.

Dan Howard

A good control would have been to conduct the test with leg armour and again without it and move that weight to the upper body so that both test subjects are still carrying the same load.

Dan Howard

If the armour was custom-fitted to the wearer then one suspects that the energy expenditure would have been less.

Dan Howard

People confuse what was called wrought iron in the 19-20th centuries and what was initially called wrought iron. The former is "puddled iron" and completely inappropriate for armour. The latter is bloomery iron and was what was used historically.

Dan Howard

"sadly, these days, Duby seems to be blessed with a brain too small to impede the natural facility of his tireless pen"

Ouch

Dan Howard

There is more than enough evidence to suggest that the Romans practiced iron wire drawing. Sim's last book summarises the evidence. Whether that technology was lost during the "dark ages" I don't know. Sim's upcoming book should bring a lot more of the evidence togather as well as add his ...

Dan Howard

David Sim has made a set of dies using Roman technology and had no trouble punching solid rings from bloomery iron made using Roman techniques. He mentions it in his book Iron for the Eagles and will soon have a more detailed book coming out. Anyone with coin die technology would have no trouble mak...

Dan Howard

I much prefer welded over riveted, just because it's easier to make. It's also much stronger, unless you are hardening and tempering your riveted, if only due to the wire being harder. That generally translates into being able to use smaller and lighter rings. If you are buying/making top of the li...

Re: Triplex construction of breastplate

Re: Thick mail rings

Re: Thick mail rings

Re: Thick mail rings

Re: Romans and Celts, caligae and ghillies, snow and socks?

Re: Anglo Saxon Leather Armour

Re: Anglo Saxon Leather Armour

Re: Lameallar priod and regions.

Re: Anglo Saxon Leather Armour

Re: Anglo Saxon Leather Armour

Re: Lapped And Butted Maille

Re: Lapped And Butted Maille

Re: Anglo Saxon Leather Armour

Re: Anglo Saxon Leather Armour

Re: Anglo Saxon Leather Armour

Re: Anglo Saxon Leather Armour

Re: Anglo Saxon Leather Armour

Re: Anglo Saxon Leather Armour

Re: Leather re-enforced Plate Armour?

Re: Leather re-enforced Plate Armour?

Re: Paintings Of Leather Armour

Re: Paintings Of Leather Armour

Re: A 12th Century double-bladed battle axe? Really?

Re: Paintings Of Leather Armour

Re: Paintings Of Leather Armour

Re: Paintings Of Leather Armour

Re: Paintings Of Leather Armour

Re: Ring Armor

Re: BBC - Treadmill shows medieval armour influenced battle

Re: recent study on physical costs of wearing armour

Re: Interesting article on chain mail

Re: Georges Duby's William Marshal, Flower of Chivalry

Re: Interesting article on chain mail

Re: Interesting article on chain mail

Re: Riveted vs Welded