The Armour Archive

Dan Howard

It was a combination of technological developments including blast furnaces and hammer mills, economic considerations after the black death increased the cost of labour, and social changes. They are outlined near the end of the MyArmoury article.
http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_mail.html

Dan Howard

The earliest fragment of a segmentata dates to 9 BC, 18 years before Teutoburgerwald, and was found in Dengstetten. It is likely that this isn't the very first segmentata ever worn so it would be reasonable to push its introduction back a little further to, say, the last half of the first century BC.

Dan Howard

There are also a few surviving iron cuirasses dating to the Hellenistic period.

Dan Howard

One-on-one fights are completely different to fighting on the battlefield. There is plenty of evidence that two-weapon styles were used in the former but little to suggest that they had any place in battle.

Dan Howard

Doing it on the battlefield will just get you killed. You either carried a shield or you used a two-handed weapon.

Dan Howard

Why not just use thinner steel plate?

Dan Howard

Glen K wrote:
There are mentions of gambesons, but. . .

If you happen to be willing to share those, I'd be very greatful! The paper too, for that matter...

Yes please. So far nobody has produced a single relevant source for padding being worn under mail in western Europe during the time in question.

Dan Howard

Norman is right. It is fairly clear that the word "cuirass" came from the root for leather. But most texts don't bother to use a specific term. Lorica is by far the most common term for armour in early European texts.

Dan Howard

All this came from a simple observation about iconographical interpretation. It is simply impossible to look at a sculpture or an illustration and conclude what material an object is made from without a lot of supporting evidence from other, more useful, sources - i.e. archaeological and/or textual....

Dan Howard

Oswyn_de_Wulferton wrote: Again, what possible benefit do you see to having it be flexible in a section of the body that rarely changes shape?

It can be made with the exact amount of flexibility that is required - up to and including complete rigidity. I already told you how.

Dan Howard

Was it better for cut resistance, or impact resistance? He only tested cut resistance. The cuirbouilli required 80J to be compromised. 5 layers of quilted linen required 90J. Critical question here - how was his cuir bouilli prepared ? Because I think what his tests prove is not the superior protec...

Dan Howard

What would be the benefit of having your forearm covered by something that is more flexible? It isn't like they drastically change shape depending on muscle movement (at least compared to some of the other muscle groups). The rigidity can easily be adjusted by altering the spacing between rows of q...

Dan Howard

Baron Alcyoneus wrote:Was it better for cut resistance, or impact resistance?

He only tested cut resistance. The cuirbouilli required 80J to be compromised. 5 layers of quilted linen required 90J.

Dan Howard

Leather provides a better base for holding splints and itself is more protective than fabric. And yes, I'm aware of jacks and similar fabric armours, calling for as many as 40 layers of linen. Williams concluded that layered linen provided far better protection than hardened leather of a similar we...

Dan Howard

My suppositions: Iron splints on heavy leather vambraces, I don't think that it is hardened. http://www.clubliege.ru/arsenal-images/gaunt03.jpg Musee de L'Ouevre Notre Dame, Strasburg, 1345 Iron splints riveted to leather vambraces. http://www.clubliege.ru/arsenal-images/gaunt05.jpg Effigy of Gottf...

Dan Howard

Why is a small ILL charge such an imposition? Many libraries have pitiful budgets considering the service they provide. Personally I can't think of another public institution more deserving of a little financial support?

Dan Howard

Thomas is right. There is little point discussing this subject unless you have read Williams' book.

Dan Howard

Bloomery iron (what was actually used in period) is certainly more ductile than mild steel. The main problem with cheaper modern steels is that a lot of it comes from recycled stock. We have no idea what we are getting. Mechanical properties can vary wildly depending on which batch you get.

Dan Howard

Strickland and Bradbury both reckon that the term "longbow" was used to distinguish the weapon from crossbows, not shorter selfbows.

Dan Howard

That's definitely true. At best all we can say about most extant examples is that they were made of some sort of animal hide. It is usually impossible to tell whether it originally was rawhide, tanned leather, or cured leather. The earliest Chinese lamellar examples, for example, are assumed to be l...

Dan Howard

Most surviving leather armour is a scale or lamellar construction. The earliest example was found in Tut's tomb.

Dan Howard

You'd probably call kangaroos "exotic". I just call them "dinner". It all depends on your perspective.

Dan Howard

Now because they were considered barbarians, although they very much wanted them on their side, their heavy coats could be considered to be like those of the Scythians with scale attached through things like belts etc. That's just complete bollocks. "Heavy coats" could simply by a thick w...

Dan Howard

I present the theory without giving it credence, however I do find it plausible. Segmentata plates and hardware do pack much smaller when unattached to each other and assembly requires a small skill set. We know how segmentata was packed and transported since an example was found at Corbridge. It w...

Dan Howard

possibly by the legionaires themselves. Where did this idea come from? Given the shoddy nature of a lot of extant finds and the available evidence in Roman texts it seems highly probable that a lot of Roman equipment was contracted out to the lowest bidder. During the 3rd-4th centuries the state to...

Dan Howard

I've had a hinge fixed to my skull. Before combat I just remove my brain and place it in storage for the duration of the fighting. It is also useful to do this when watching TV - especially the History Channel

Dan Howard

Wolf wrote:me says no padding for 11th century. if you do you are a farb like glenk of the blue under tunic hahah

If there was no liner then there must be another reason for the edging on Norman mail.

Dan Howard

I would say archer became more of a factor but my point stands, do you think archers put on a padded doublet, then maille (wear maille was worn), then a jack or do you think it was just a standard doublet, maille and then a jack? Again, this problem resolves itself if one considers the possibility ...

Dan Howard

And while your effort to create a consistency in terminology is a good one, we're hamstrung by the fact that no such consistency existed in period, and as such doing so is problematic and artificial. We make up terms to describe things all the time. It doesn't matter what you call them so long as e...

Dan Howard

I cited the passage in the myarmoury article on mail. m "They were drawn up in front of the cavalry, stood firm as a wall, and every foot-soldier wore a vest of thick felt and a coat of mail so dense and strong that our arrows made no impression on them... I saw some with from one to ten arrows...

Dan Howard

Do we? It sounds like you've been reading waaaay too much Nicolle... I'd believe the "padded stuff works better in a hot climate so the crusaders (first) brought it back from the middle east" argument if it wasn't for the fact they'd already been in the just-as-hot northern Mediterranean ...

Dan Howard

There is a source from Beha Ad-din, a secretary of sorts of Sal Ad-din in the 3rd Crusade that clearly states that the soldiers were wearing mail hauberks AND gambesons. What is meant by "gambeson" in this instance is unclear, however. All the passage says is that they were wearing mail a...

Dan Howard

I didn't find much difference in function between a lining that was pointed across its surface and a lining that was only attached around the edges. I have never worn armour long enough to judge how long it might last during a campaign though. There would be no problems with the Romans however. They...

Dan Howard

Using separate strips also solves the lost scale problem. You just replace a single row rather than replacing the whole thing. You don't have to use wire. The same construction can be done with lacing - both for each row and for attaching it to the backing.

Dan Howard

No worries Glen, no harm done. I suspected that is what was done but nobody who had initially participated in this thread had that sort of access. I had no idea who I was replying to. I have not tried an integrated liner, so I have no comparison. Could you share your experiences? Most of my experien...

Re: dual wielding? fact? myth?