The Armour Archive

Dan Howard

The Chinese didn't use paper to make armour; they used barkcloth. As far as I know it was quilted just like their other textile armours. The Koreans used it too.

Dan Howard

Interesting. Would also help explain the small rings that were attached to some pommels. The peace string could be threaded through the ring and around the scabbard.

Dan Howard

If it was "just a TV show" people wouldn't mind. People have problems because the producers pretend that it is historical. The whole concept of the History Channel is an affront.

Dan Howard

I've seen the concept used in a few fantasy novels but have never come across the practice historically. Sean's arguments against it are compelling.

Dan Howard

You can get any level of protection you want just by adding more layers. If these guys were trying to replicate the classical linen corselet then they don't want to "over build" it. Pausanias says that linen armour is more suitable for hunting because it can let harder weapon strikes through, and Al...

Dan Howard

Book should be available soon.
http://www.amazon.com/Reconstructing-An ... 308&sr=8-1

I'd like to see a review by someone who knows something about historical textile armour.

Dan Howard

If they actually studied extant examples of quilted armour they might have produced some meaningful results. This has been covered multiple times previously. Here is the latest thread. http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=158821 And before anyone says anything, there is written...

Dan Howard

Also, hide glue dries very hard, and if you allow the glue to penetrate into the leather, I wonder if it would reinforce it the way hide glue stiffens linen in a linothorax. You should note that the Greeks never used glue to make textile armour. It was quilted like every other layered textile defen...

Dan Howard

I think he is implying that anyone swinging around a Celtic sword in a battle who doesn't have a shield is likely to end up dead.

Dan Howard

But it isn't "leather and rigid armour" over mail. I still can't find any mention of leather armour at all in Gerald of Wales.

Dan Howard

Could he be referring to the two separate pieces of mail that make up the leg armour - the braies ( panno loricae ) & chausses ( ocreali ferro )? Or panno loricae refers to the skirt of the hauberk that covers the thighs and ocreali ferro refers to the chausses. I think this one makes more sense bas...

Dan Howard

I only learnt classical latin (and only one year's worth) but, as far as I can tell, panno loricae refers to "mail mesh" or "mail fabric" and not a separate layer of cloth or leather. In any case I can't see anything that could be interpreted as "leather" or even "linen".

Dan Howard

Accidit et tempore Guillelmi de Breusa, ipso testante, quemdam militem suum, in conflictu contra (Gualenses?), a quodam ipsorum per mediam coxam, cum panno loricae ac ocreali ferro utrinque vestitam, sagitta percussum esse; eadem quoque sagitta per partem illam sellae, quae Alva vocatur, usque in ip...

Dan Howard

Here is the J M Dent edition that is on Project Gutenberg http://www.archive.org/stream/itinerarythroug00girauoft/itinerarythroug00girauoft_djvu.txt The Abergavenny Castle incident: "William de Braose also testifies that one of his soldiers, in a conflict with the Welsh, was wounded by an arrow, whi...

Dan Howard

We have bits of leather and rigid armour mentioned by Gerald of Wales as well over mail. I once went through the entire book looking for references to hide or leather and only found two. One was for shoes and one was for boats. I may have missed it but I couldn't find any leather reference that was...

Dan Howard

Sorry this is short, but I am sick). I would like to have a good book on late 14th century armour, with jargon in different languages and some sort of typology, and a good book with lots of photos of finds from that period. Doug Strong's volumes will give us the second but may come out too late for...

Dan Howard

Agreed. Blair is the only secondary source you need to study this subject. It is a foundation upon which you use primary sources to build upon.

Dan Howard

If you have access to Elgood's "Islamic Arms and Armour", you can see quite a few examples of covered defenses of small plates or scales, some probably riveted, some more likely with the plates sewn, from a late 13th-14th century context. Michael Gorelik's essay covers some of this in some detail. ...

Dan Howard

Yep. Blair is still the best work on the subject. Don't bother with anything else unless Toby comes through with an update.

Dan Howard

Blair reckoned that jazerant/jazeraint/jazerint/etc was derived from kazaghand and gestron was derived from jazerant. All these were variants of mail sandwiched between padding/quilting. I don't think that any involved riveted plates but I'd love to see evidence suggesting otherwise.

Dan Howard

RandallMoffett wrote:Chef,

So Bob when will you get all this info out so we can all see it? I'd love to see what you have come up with.

RPM

Absolutely. If Bob puts his mind to it I'm thinking that he could write the definitive work on the subject.

Dan Howard

Powers wrote:Thank you for the information. I will look into bronze alloy 220, and I look forward to Dan's potential elaboration.

Not much need to elaborate. Todd summarised it pretty well.

Dan Howard

It was one of his earlier documentaries. IIRC he didn't have a shield at all.

Dan Howard

I remember one show where Mike was claiming that Celtic swords were too heavy to parry with so he was jumping around trying to show how they must have dodged any attacks. His more recent docos seem to be a lot better.

Dan Howard

I suppose you'd have to define what you mean by "brigandine" first. Some of the examples found at Wisby, for example, could be described as either a brig or a CoP.

Dan Howard

Second Randall's recommendation for Sumption. It should be the first book you read. As a general rule you should stay away from Osprey except as a source for photos of original artefacts, but Anne Curry's work is solid. Andrew Ayton's "Knights and Warhorses" is worth reading too. It concentrates on ...

Dan Howard

Heh. We had this exact same discussion over on the Bronze Age forum a couple of weeks ago. I made this up as a response. Woe be unto the spindly-limbed minions of misinformation, With their fatuous armours of latex, vinyl, and glass fibre. May the pitiless bronze cut in twain their girly blades of i...

Dan Howard

The combination of scale and plate is pure speculation but it looks neat and seems plausible. The shoulder pauldrons are too small. The thigh armour should probably have been done like an Arraphian dutiwa which was basically a kilt that was split up the sides. The above thigh protection looks like i...

Dan Howard

"This kind of burst lasts for literally two seconds at most"

Dan Howard

i dont know much on the subject but, the bodkin point vs: broad head. wasent the bodkin point made to penetrate armour? i know both were used at crecy and agincourt. did the ottomans or anyone besides the english use a bodkin point ? I could build an argument that the English bodkin was used for fl...

Dan Howard

Nice project. Looking forward to seeing it finished.

Dan Howard

It is actually stronger. The link is much more likely to break elsewhere around the link than on the riveted join, which is largely irrelevant for the same reason - the link will fail before the join is tested.

Dan Howard

That doesn't look like a mild scoliosis. It looks like something created for the Daily Mail.

Dan Howard

It is possible that leather lamellar was used by Sicilian Moslems.

Dan Howard

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/774
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/775

Re: The "Linen Cuirass"

Re: Peace bonding and peace tying

Re: "Viking" Clothing from History Channel's New Series

Re: Peace bonding and peace tying

Re: The "Linen Cuirass"

Re: The "Linen Cuirass"

Re: Historical cuir bouilli weight and hardness

Re: Historical cuir bouilli weight and hardness

Re: Video of Mike Loades testing Egyptian Armour

Re: Eastern Influences on HMA Armament

Re: Eastern Influences on HMA Armament

Re: Eastern Influences on HMA Armament

Re: Eastern Influences on HMA Armament

Re: Eastern Influences on HMA Armament

Re: Eastern Influences on HMA Armament

Re: New Book: History of Armour 1100 to 1700

Re: New Book: History of Armour 1100 to 1700

Re: Earliest Brigandine Examples

Re: New Book: History of Armour 1100 to 1700

Re: Earliest Brigandine Examples

Re: Earliest Brigandine Examples

Re: bronze-look armor

Re: Video of Mike Loades testing Egyptian Armour

Re: Video of Mike Loades testing Egyptian Armour

Re: Earliest Brigandine Examples

Re: Good books on the Hundred Years War?

Re: "Viking" Clothing from History Channel's New Series

Re: Some Mycenaean Goodness

Re: So, what was going on in 775AD?

Re: 15th/16th century plate armours effectiveness against ar

Re: I'm making a brass lantern

Re: 15th/16th century plate armours effectiveness against ar

Re: Looking for Richard III

Re: Leather Lamellar use for early italo normans

Re: So, what was going on in 775AD?