The Armour Archive

Dan Howard

I don't see a problem in theory. The acid is pretty weak and shouldn't be in contact long enough to damage the armour. You take it out of the barrel, rinse it in clean water, and let it dry in the sun.

Dan Howard

I've only ever learned classical latin so can't help much, but I think Russ is spot on. Looks like "for the armour of the count ( comes )" is the right translation. So are there any other sources describing mail being cleaned in barrels with sand and vinegar? I read somewhere that urine was also som...

Dan Howard

Marshal wrote:Actually, I was wondering why Dan thought that literary mention of 'blue swords' in a saga was reason for caution about crediting a 'white hauberk'.

Ernst said that but I'm inclined to agree with him. Using illustrations for this kind of analysis is a waste of time.

Dan Howard

There is a blue sword too. I don't think that illustrations can ever be used for this kind of analysis. You'd need to look at the texts.

Dan Howard

There was a large discussion on the archmetals mailing list a few years ago. If I'm remembering correctly, bloomery iron itself doesn't oxidise any differently to mild steel. The black coating that comes from the forge can act to potect the metal like other rust inhibitors. But there is also a downs...

Dan Howard

Most Han lamellar was probably still being made from hide rather than metal, just like previously. The style is still pretty similar to that depicted on the Terra Cotta warriors but develops into more familiar types of lamellar during that period. The Han period is also when they start using iron la...

Dan Howard

The first one regards the picture titled "Bayeux 1". He and many others on the tapestry looks to be wearing some sort of soft armour (could it be a civilian dress), it doesn't look like the way maille is depicted on most other knights on the tapestry. Despite this, I've never seen a reconstruction ...

Dan Howard

It all comes down to accurately translating one word. If Hrolfr is right then they are wearing wolfskins over their armour. If Davidson is right then they are wearing wolfskins as armour. If you are right then they are wearing wolfskins instead of armour. We need someone who is both familiar with th...

Dan Howard

How does sarcasm help? If Gunnvör is using a dodgy translation she would want to know. There is only one word that needs to be changed,

"those berserks who were called ulfhednar had wolf shirts for mail-coats"

"those berserks who were called ulfhednar had wolf shirts over mail-coats"

Dan Howard

A soft kit is definitely the thing to buy first. Even if you get mail later you'll still have plenty of uses for the clothing.

Dan Howard

I don't really think that anything is going on except that the illustrations are not photo-realistic. IMO they are trying to depict exactly the effect that Len demonstrated.

Dan Howard

Maybe send her an email and inform her that the translation she is using is wrong. I doubt she would intentionally want to promote false information.

Dan Howard

It is all leather

Dan Howard

Slightly related question. Whose weapons were offered for votive deposition: the winner or the loser?

Dan Howard

There is a crocodile armor from Egypt in the British museum. Could have been ceremonial or a standard bearers item I don't know but worth noting. There is a costume made from crocodile hide from Egypt. There is no way to know what it was used for and nobody has tested it to see whether it is effect...

Dan Howard

Here is one of the very few illustrations that might be one (from the Mac Bible)<<<snipped for brevity>>> That's probably leather. Those peaked shoulders are a classic example of what happens with leather if you leave the neckline a bit large and loose, just as it would be on a somewhat one-size-fi...

Dan Howard

Cuirass comes from the French word curie (leather/hide). We know that leather "cuiries" were being worn over mail in the 13th C, and maybe as early as the mid to late 12th, but we know very few specifics about how they were constructed or what they looked like; they don't come out from under surcoa...

Dan Howard

Agreed with Ernst. The artist is likely trying to depict two different types of mail. We know that there were plenty of different kinds from the French documents. Ffoulkes lists a few of them.

Dan Howard

Yeah but they are covered up with a dress so they don't count.

Dan Howard

Yes, I believe either is an accepted term, but probably a bit of a misnomer either way since those who have experience have found that actually boiling the leather causes brittleness. Just using hot water, or soaking and baking get all the hardness you need without losing toughness. Exactly how it ...

Dan Howard

It doesn't matter whether a modern example is better or worse. If it is appreciably different then it can't produce a valid weapon test. Personally I would prefer a shirt of tightly-woven welded steel links and would bet that it provides better protection than a lot of museum examples, but shooting ...

Dan Howard

This is what I was refering to. I agree with Dan that today's maille leaves a lot to be desired, but it is better than butted, etc, IMO. I agree that the Indian riveted mail is a hell of a lot better than butted mail. But I don't see how that equates with "historical". Some might define the word di...

Dan Howard

Even if you clean it up it still won't look historical. May as well leave it black and not have to worry about rust. Black mail also looks pretty cool. It will probably wear off by itself after a while anyway.

Dan Howard

They weren't drawn by a teenaged male; there aren't any boobies or willies.

Dan Howard

Williams book suggests that quilted textiles provided better protection than cuirboulli of a similar weight.

Dan Howard

I didn't think there was any controversy about sleeves. People have been producing extant examples with links running both ways for years. Do you know where I could find additional images of this? I'd be interested in seeing more examples. Not really. I just know that I've seen enough examples over...

Dan Howard

I didn't think there was any controversy about sleeves. People have been producing extant examples with links running both ways for years.

Dan Howard

It still doesn't produce the effect seen in a lot of illustrations with "a row going L, a gap, then a row going R, a gap..." The only reconstruction that does is Ashdown's. So either Ashdown is right or the illustrations are not depicting reality. The following isn't the best example since it is a m...

Dan Howard

So how does that baidana differ from regular mail?

Dan Howard

While rings laying in one orientation may appear more obvious in each of those photos, they don't appear with a row going L, a gap, then a row going R, a gap... You can't have it both ways. Your argument can be used to discredit the leather thong theory too. Any mail that has leather threaded throu...

Dan Howard

Two pics of the same mail with the light moved from one side to the other. In the top one, the rounded links are more visible. In the bottom one, the flat links are. Both show the banding effect but the top one is the best example.

Dan Howard

Russ Mitchell wrote:Except insofar as that photo is something different than what you're describing....

Unless there are leather strips through the mail then it is exactly the effect I'm describing. BTW where is it? Those links are pretty chunky.

Dan Howard

This piece is made from alternating rows of riveted and solid rings: http://www.allenantiques.com/M-9.html It appears they tried to keep the rings pretty consistent in size so there is no "banded" look to it. You certainly could make the rings different this way or with all riveted to make somethin...

Dan Howard

Russ Mitchell wrote:Any evidence that was done?

In Europe square-sectioned punched links have been alternated with round-sectioned riveted ones since the Roman period. Vegard's analysis is pretty convincing that this was the norm in Scandinavia too.

Dan Howard

I'd *like* to believe the alternating-size explanation, Ernst, but I'm not coming up with any ring-differential that comes out looking the same, unless they're some really mongo-large diameter differences. Dan's more tied into the mail-madness crowd than I am, maybe he can comment there. Size isn't...

Re: Was maille cleaned using sand and vinegar?

Re: Was maille cleaned using sand and vinegar?

Re: Blackened Chainmail

Re: Blackened Chainmail

Re: Blackened Chainmail

Re: IWTB a chinese warrior of the han dynasty 206BCâ€“220AD

Re: Three questions on the Bayeux Tapestry.

Re: Viking Wolfskin Armour (help with translation)

Re: Viking Wolfskin Armour (help with translation)

Re: I wanna be a VIKING

Re: How plausible is banded mail?

Re: Viking Wolfskin Armour (help with translation)

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Re: leather body armour period?

Re: leather body armour period?

Re: leather body armour period?

Re: How plausible is banded mail?

Re: Kids scribbled in your favorite book?

Re: Some questions on leather armor in Europe.

Re: Blackened Chainmail

Re: Blackened Chainmail

Re: Blackened Chainmail

Re: Kids scribbled in your favorite book?

Re: Some questions on leather armor in Europe.

Re: How plausible is banded mail?

Re: How plausible is banded mail?

Re: How plausible is banded mail?

Re: How plausible is banded mail?

Re: How plausible is banded mail?

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Re: How plausible is banded mail?

Re: How plausible is banded mail?