The Armour Archive

Gerhard von Liebau

Holy Toledo!

Gerhard von Liebau

What time period are you after? In the centuries preceding the Huns' movement into Europe, their armament would be very influenced by contemporary Chinese and/or other Eastern technology. By the late-fourth century when Attila, Aetius and Co. came into the picture, you can expect many Germanic and R...

Gerhard von Liebau

By tree shield do you mean them little heraldic shields that a knight (or his rep) went up to and poked to announce a proposed combat? If not, I'm stumped and would love to know a bit more about what you're making here. The first one turned out very nice. Being ignorant of your goal I can't make any...

Gerhard von Liebau

I haven't had a chance to make it there yet, but I have a friend getting married in August in Massachusetts. Sounds like it'll make for a reasonable double-whammy.

-Gerhard

Gerhard von Liebau

Rod! Looks great, man. I love the integration of the leather and metallic bits on the cuirass. Your tooling is looking nicer with every piece you do, as well. Cheers!

-Gerhard

Gerhard von Liebau

Beathan's good people. I need to order some stuff from A&C again, been a long while.

-Gerhard

Gerhard von Liebau

http://s4.beta.photobucket.com/user/Nep ... 0.jpg.html

1500-1510. That's the sort of gorget I think you're after with this setup. The sallet has the same profile as the bellows visor.

Cheers!

-Gerhard

Gerhard von Liebau

Xtracted wrote:I found this painting, dated 1509.

I posted that painting for you already..?

Gerhard von Liebau

The original Milanese sallet that inspired this piece is shown on page 108 of David Edge's Arms and Armor of the Medieval Knight , and he dates it "c. 1500." Others I've seen with bellows visors are also turn of the century. It isn't unreasonable at all to suggest that it would be worn in 1510 just ...

Gerhard von Liebau

Groovy! If there isn't a clear pattern on the plaques I wouldn't be too concerned... Cheers!

-Gerhard

Gerhard von Liebau

Anywhere in Northeastern Europe where the Teutonic Order had a presence in the decades prior to the advent of the klappvisor it would probably be reasonable to suggest the presence of most German arms technology. And that's not only for the Germans, but even their opponents and pagan allies; the arm...

Gerhard von Liebau

Beautiful work, Prince. I'm not sure where Dan was going with his comment, but I have a similar sentiment. I work with leather a lot and once it's got paint covering it in its entirety, a lot of the natural flavor of the material goes missing. It goes from obviously being leather to something that m...

Gerhard von Liebau

Thanks for sharing, Len. I would also vote for the likelihood of lamellar or scale.

-Gerhard

Gerhard von Liebau

Definitely Russ. That will be a major consideration but I need to accumulate enough of the material and literary evidence with dates to develop frequency/geographic/chronological charts, and also have a solid grasp on trade routes at relevant times for each transmission, then the ping-pong will begi...

Gerhard von Liebau

"I see very little common between the vertical COP of St. Maurice and the east." Not as much as I recall, alas. I thought it was pretty clearly indicated on that statue that the plates weren't overlapping, based on how they sat under the fabric - but it is impossible to discern looking at it from a ...

Gerhard von Liebau

My interest in lamellar is more about its transmission as a maintained technology in Europe during this period than trying to say it evolved into anything. Because we have evidence of lamellars construction features in Northern Europe by the early fourteenth century, it seems reasonable to take a cl...

Gerhard von Liebau

As I said Randall, I'm confident there's quite a bit more information about the Eastern armor I can come up with to show the idea of the armored garment, well prior to 1250. I know of at least one depiction of Song cavalry from the twelfth century that shows armor that covers the body very similarly...

Gerhard von Liebau

So Greg- your move lets see the cards! What makes you so sure that these torso armours influenced the COP? I am more than willing to see the evidence and think about it. Randall, it seems like across the board we're seeing the same evidence in Europe, but are interpreting it from rather different a...

Gerhard von Liebau

Sorry guys. My internet went out all weekend. Turned out just to need a new router, after waiting for fellows to come out... *sigh* "If these defenses were indeed widespread in the early decades of the thirteenth century, it makes me wonder why those French knights at Benevento did not have the same...

Gerhard von Liebau

If these defenses were indeed widespread in the early decades of the thirteenth century, it makes me wonder why those French knights at Benevento did not have the same advantage, or why in the art of effigies, and even most miniatures, these defenses are so lacking until the early decades of the fou...

Gerhard von Liebau

Hey Randall, I think we're not seeing my theory eye-to-eye. I don't disagree that the conception and adoption of additional armor over mail preceding the influences of the Mongols/Eastern peoples. What I'm trying to say is that by the time the developments became more widespread in the second half o...

Gerhard von Liebau

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=159719&p=2419073#p2419073

Gerhard von Liebau

Hello folks, Today's conversation on the brigandine thread put me on my toes, and I just want to say this is really interesting to me. I think it deserves it's own topic so as to not further derail the other thread. I just want to come back to the start and say I didn't intend to come off vaguely or...

Gerhard von Liebau

They were very quick to adopt other technology and luxury goods as fast as they were able. The original statement you made which I pointedly argued against. I said this to the contrary: "...throughout much of Europe in the period you mention, embracing eastern culture and style was considered gaudy...

Gerhard von Liebau

The Richard I example is just a "plate" isn't it? And, in any case, you're all misconstruing my argument. I'm not saying the notion of plate and/or composite armor came from the East. I'm saying that by the time it was seen fit to incorporate those elements into the standard harness (late 13th centu...

Gerhard von Liebau

In regards to the swift adoption of military technology, I have in evidence both castle developments in Western Europe, that seem to be related to earlier crusading experience, and the adoption of the trebuchet. I don't understand which direction you're saying these technologies went. Also, I don't...

Gerhard von Liebau

Shame on you for putting words into my mouth Gerhard,..... I quoted you directly, and said nothing to the contrary. Sorry that you're making light of it, but I really cannot. I just happen to be sick of people who inevitably jump into threads about armorers from places other than the United States ...

Gerhard von Liebau

I've got my Japanese blades mounted thus. They each have two holes drilled at an upward angle in the top corners, so two tiny nails at the same angle suffice to keep them very flat against the wall. Nothing's fallen down or even looked half way like it might since I put them up years ago. The plaque...

Gerhard von Liebau

Turkish heavy cavalry were formidably armored during the sixteenth century, as well. The use of lots of heavy weaponry like maces and axes by Turks at that time attests to their need to break through tough armament, both among their European opponents and within their own feuds, which were not infre...

Gerhard von Liebau

Gustovic, the adoption of plate, in my opinion, relies a lot on both of these factors. If there were not weapons and tactics popular in Europe that necessitated the adoption of layered, composite harnesses in the late thirteenth/early fourteenth centuries, then there would not have been any compelli...

Gerhard von Liebau

The problem with the transmission concept in regards to the cost of plates is the gap from the 1090's - the mid 13th century, with Europeans not adopting it. They were very quick to adopt other technology and luxury goods as fast as they were able. But at least in Central Europe plate defenses did ...

Gerhard von Liebau

Sounds a lot like Russian cavalry of the time, as well.

-Gerhard

Gerhard von Liebau

Gerhard: and yet the Crusaders got their asses STOMPED, twice in a row, by Qoja and his Cumans at Adrianople. There's good reason that Poland, Hungary, the Byzantines, etc, fielded both heavy *and* light cavalry, and that in Hungary at least "noble" and "heavy cavalry" were *not* synonymous. Yeah, ...

Gerhard von Liebau

Absolutely, Buster. The reason the Turkish light cavalry was unable to penetrate the crusader ranks with their typical tactics was because genius Frankish leaders like Bohemond refused to bend to their game. There's a lot more to it than armor penetration. I wrote a thesis on crusader cavalry tactic...

Gerhard von Liebau

Folks were talking about it on the DoK Facebook. Sayin' it's pretty general, touches most of the typical points and shows photos of the same old armor we see time and again. Plus, it's only 128 pages long... Looks like something that'd be nice to set up next to Toby's The Real Fighting Stuff to get ...

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