The Armour Archive

Russ Mitchell

Or possibly the helm-->helmet thing, and it referring to something providing only partial body coverage. I like your coverage argument in general.

Russ Mitchell

Yeah, Kilian, my initial impression was "somebody goofed their paleaography," and I was curious about corset/corselet as well. But it's poppping up too often to be that sort of error.

As a side note, what's the provenance of that piece?

Russ Mitchell

Dan is right, but then Dan objected to more or less the same argument b/c of the left->right->left issue. (and I think he was right to do so). So I think there's at least a bit more going on, probably something REALLY picayune.

Russ Mitchell

Russ, I tend to agree (and made myself a similar one for SCA combat at one time), but I'm also very cautious making any definite assertions from such scant evidence. We're on the same page: like I said, that could also easily be stout felt. I don't think fabric -- the design of the garment is too u...

Russ Mitchell

Here is one of the very few illustrations that might be one (from the Mac Bible)<<<snipped for brevity>>> That's probably leather. Those peaked shoulders are a classic example of what happens with leather if you leave the neckline a bit large and loose, just as it would be on a somewhat one-size-fi...

Russ Mitchell

My colleague in Hungary has found another wallpainting not far from Karacsonyfalva which he says is beautifully-preserved and clearly shows a garment of brown medium-sized scale worn over mail. Additionally, sleeveless doublets of multiple soft layers of leather are common for Hungarians and Cumans ...

Russ Mitchell

And Usamah's remarks imply that BOTH sets of mail he was wearing, indigenous and western, came with linings and padding. I'd LOVE to know what THAT referred to.

Russ Mitchell

Don't remember it as a spear. As a striking weapon, absolutely.

Russ Mitchell

That makes perfect sense in the context of "new woven cloth within and without" -- thanks.

Russ Mitchell

TANGENT ALERT

"Stuffed" aketons and gambesons? I don't know English technical vocabulary of the period, but that looks like an eye-opener.

/TANGENT

Russ Mitchell

Paladin, define "not too expensive." There are minimum ranges beyond which you're better off googling "backyard bowyer pvc" and making your own "do-I-enjoy-this" weapon to start with (not knowing squat about your experience or lack thereof).

Russ Mitchell

That argument homogeneity where none necessarily exists, Ernst. Service to a court or retinue could be so expensive that a second or third son who is made familiaris would be required to mortgage off lands or even towers to afford the gear. Everybody we're looking at in knightly status is the top-1%...

Russ Mitchell

Basic, simple, easy, low maintenance -- not the trappings of the social elite.

Russ Mitchell

I have similar issues with the gaps in Williams' writing: me and Cliff wound up going round and round on it in another paper. If you've given me an accurate summation of what they've said, then I would agree with you that these are not quality assertions, and that such statements can basically be di...

Russ Mitchell

Robert of Canterbury wrote:What do you mean by "Reverse Hafted"

Do you mean like a pickaxe handle? ie that your axehead has a flared bore on the eye, wider at top than bottom?

Seen a number of originals like that, both in axes and maces.

Russ Mitchell

Russ Mitchell, Archery versus Mail: Experimental Archaeology and the Value of Historical Context , Journal of Medieval Military History, Volume 4 (2006). My concern with a lot of academic writers is that they often talk about "Magyar bows" or "Avar bows" as if they were a specific model ("Mauser Kar...

Russ Mitchell

Disagree strongly. Proper methodology CAN account for differences, and one can do tests which teach us things without forcibly recreating precise replicas -- that's why we have this little thing called science. We don't *have* to only collect anecdotal data from precise replicas in order to learn. W...

Russ Mitchell

I'm not sure a blanket assertion of mechanical inferiority applies, either. For instance, my research turned up absolutely zero appreciable differences between "India mail" and much better flat-ring-wedge-riveted stuff, with failures almost always involving the sundering of the link wire at the base...

Russ Mitchell

The effigies and brasses site Enrico posted is your friend. Forget England and France, though.

http://effigiesandbrasses.com/monuments

Timeframe 1340-1360; Greece, Poland, Hungary, Austria, Italy, Croatia.

If that doesn't get you going, you ain't trying.

Russ Mitchell

Reed, by the way, can be quite the material to build things from -- there are huge variations in its performance depending on species and growing conditions, and phragmites, for instance, growing slowly in harsh conditions is enormously strong for its weight.

Russ Mitchell

Nope.
Like I said, I'm running with what's plausible, not what we have evidence for. So far as I am aware, the VAST majority of Vlach were outfitted very lightly.

Russ Mitchell

Gauntlets -- whatever you want to use. I've seen a number of manuscript miniatures that seem to run the gamut.

Russ Mitchell

Cuirboilli appears to vary quite a bit depending on how it's prepared, and how thick it is -- thin cuirboilli, for one reason or another, seems to have notable issues hardening by comparison to using thicker hide. Also, the preparation of the hide matters quite a bit -- half-tanned hides, in my expe...

Russ Mitchell

I know this is going to sound just RELENTLESSLY stupid, but since this is first and foremost (iirc) a test of rivet placement, why not make the first round easy on yourself, and just use rawhide lace "buttons" to start with? That way you can be sure the alignment's what it needs to be prior to worry...

Russ Mitchell

Buster,

Thanks for the .pdf link -- that helps me considerably, as you and Dan are now rapidly eclipsing my ability to be useful in the discussion (I'm much, much better with leather stuff, which I've taught myself stem-to-stern, than with mail).

Russ Mitchell

Dan,

You're dialed in on mail a lot more than I am -- so it's just torso that's funky?

Russ Mitchell

Okay, put it this way -- the torso and the sleeves look notably different.

Russ Mitchell

Suspicious? How?

Edit: Interesting! Look, the baidana has a different hang on the sleeves than on the torso. Maybe we've simply been too dogmatic on which way of doing mail is "right?"

Russ Mitchell

It kind of looks that way, yes -- pity it's such a far-off shot.

The baidana is in the Kremlin Armoury. I never made it further east than Transylvania and parts of Poland, unfortunately, so i can't speak from any close experience with Godunov's armor.

Russ Mitchell

Scott,

In general I'm more than happy to help you with transportation -- problem is that my wife's travelling for business and Saturday will be the only day I can get up there. Still, better tangential aid than none at all? If you PM me I'll drop you my cell#.

Russ Mitchell

And by that time, the Poles and Hungarians were hollowing out their lances, big-time, in order to put a serious emphasis on length rather than weight -- neither one was anywhere near as heavy as the French lance, and neither of them organized around having the sheer striking power of the French, eit...

Russ Mitchell

Thanks for the heads-up on the folio -- the Getty links aren't working for me, for some reason.

Russ Mitchell

The idea that some of the figures in Fiore are marked as different ethnicities is interesting ... do you know which picture, or even which manuscript and armament, shows someone kitted in the Hungarian fashion? There are a lot of kettle-hats and early sallets in Fiore as well as the great bascinets...

Russ Mitchell

Barrett, Both would serve you well, and both are totally plausible, especially if the fellow in question had merc'ed out for either the Poles or Hungarians. Don't underestimate the value of a good mail coif, however -- they can be really, really handy for absorbing impacts in conjunction with other ...

Russ Mitchell

Randall, Depends on what they needed to do -- check out the effigies and click on Poland, and you'll see plenty of very complete armor. For a middling noble, though, there's a real advantage, for instance, in being able to chuck the chain and use your brigandined/splinted gear along with your "buff ...

Re: The Corset

Re: The Corset

Re: How plausible is banded mail?

Re: leather body armour period?

Re: leather body armour period?

Re: leather body armour period?

Re: How plausible is banded mail?

Re: Middle Eastern Spear or Lance

Re: Blackened Chainmail

Re: Blackened Chainmail

Re: WTB Arrows

Re: Blackened Chainmail

Re: Blackened Chainmail

Re: Blackened Chainmail

Re: Axe handle from green wood?

Re: Blackened Chainmail

Re: Blackened Chainmail

Re: Blackened Chainmail

Re: 1350 transitional plate armour

Re: Middle Eastern Spear or Lance

Re: 1350 transitional plate armour

Re: 1350 transitional plate armour

Re: Some questions on leather armor in Europe.

Re: Luap's Polarbear Forge Brigandine Kit Project

Re: How plausible is banded mail?

Re: How plausible is banded mail?

Re: How plausible is banded mail?

Re: How plausible is banded mail?

Re: How plausible is banded mail?

Re: Hammer In

Re: Mounted Cavalry Charge with lances

Re: 1350 transitional plate armour

Re: 1350 transitional plate armour

Re: 1350 transitional plate armour

Re: 1350 transitional plate armour