The Armour Archive

Richard Blackmoore

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2004 8:51 am Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Heirn wrote: "Folks..the arguments are becoming circular. There are 2 camps regarding archery: 1) those that believe that archery was effective against the armor of the per...

Richard Blackmoore

I like Sir Alfred's suggestions. Excellent compromises that fix many of the basic problems with SCA CA. Unfortunately, I think that most of the CA community will in general hate these, based on prior responses to these sort of suggestions.

Richard Blackmoore

Richard Blackmoore

There are several female fighters I have heard wonderful things about whom I never had the opportunity to fight, some are even knights. One is Maethen (sp?) who by most accounts is quite accomplished both on and off the field. I unfortunately seem to meet most of the good female fighters at Pennsic ...

Richard Blackmoore

If I see a leg blow coming and I intentionally lift my leg up so that the blow strikes low (say on my knee), it is my responsibility to accept the blow as good as I substituted an illegal target to block a legal blow. I feel that the blow must count under commonly accepted interpretations of the SCA...

Richard Blackmoore

Bump. I've had limited time, I wanted to be sure this does not get lost. I'll try to put the link to this out on the yahoo chivalry groups tonight after work.

Richard

Richard Blackmoore

Animal, I printed this out, as I don't know when I'll have time to read it in enough detail to respond intelligently. For me the only valid examples that apply to the SCA are those from the Medieval knightly period in Europe, but as you mentioned there are several, including the Mongol battle with E...

Richard Blackmoore

If you mean really jumping as opposed to having both feet temporarily off the ground during normal movements, yes you can do this and land a good blow. I rarely do this as I ascribe to Kennard of Bath's martial arts lesson of "You fly, you die". Basically there are a lot of cool moves you can do whi...

Richard Blackmoore

While I have done no where's near the research Bob Charron has, I suspect that he has it pretty much right. One problem with this discussion is the sheer amount of variables involved. When discussing medieval combat in Europe, we tend to make sweeping generalizations. If you really want to discuss t...

Richard Blackmoore

Duchess Rowain is one of those (along with her husband) who helped me to improve my bastard sword fighting long ago, before either of us were knighted, both by giving me advice and sparring with me. One of my lasting annoyances is that she was not knighted in the East Kingdom, she was knighted after...

Richard Blackmoore

I think the most important aspect of the SCA is the violence inherent in the system. It sets us apart from most other groups dealing with the knightly European Middle Ages. Once this draws you in, you realize that the chivalric ideals are part and parcel of that violence, giving it meaning, purpose ...

Richard Blackmoore

Actually we maintain that archery played a huge role in defeating the nobility and the knights, but not by killing them through their armour. It helped defeat them by driving them away/in a particular direction, disrupting command and control (have to keep your helm on), killing or wounding their ho...

Richard Blackmoore

This is a worthy and wonderful project. I hope I can find time to contribute to it. If you don't mind, I would like to post this to the SCA Chivalry Group on Yahoo, there are some chivalry quite interested in archery from both a combat and a hunting perspective. Some even like SCA combat archery or ...

Richard Blackmoore

And to clarify, yes the SCA covers more than the medieval period. However our combat and codes of conduct in the lists and in melee are quite clearly based on the medieval chivalric/noble model appropriate to Europe (and the Renn period). It is not based on early Athenian, Spartan, Roman, Celtic, Ba...

Richard Blackmoore

Hi Tessa. Not to derail this thread, but we have a much larger problem philosophically with bows than crossbows, though we still don't see much evidence for nobles using crossbows against other nobles in tournament or war. With the exception of siege warefare perhaps, which is where I think Richard ...

Richard Blackmoore

Hi Animal. I printed out a copy of the Athelmaerc Archery document you referenced and I look forward to reading it.

Thanks for the link!

Richard

Richard Blackmoore

Hi John. When maille was still being worn as the state of the art armour for knights & nobility, the contemporary bows and arrows were less powerful than their later incarnations and the tips less effective in penetrating maille & a gambeson. Maille protected fairly well from lethal or serious one s...

Richard Blackmoore

Hi Animal. The reason you did not see 'a word' about a rock thrown from out of bounds 'attackers' that you can't strike back at, is that I did not think that was what we were discussing. From my perspective, that is an absolutely disgusting practice that is WORSE then combat archery. I thought I mad...

Richard Blackmoore

Just out of curiousity, is there safety code to stop a registered user from voting more than once?

Richard

Richard Blackmoore

Hi Tessa: First of all, let me extend my hopes that your daughter is well. Despite the fact that Alfred and I share very similar philosophical based reasons for believing combat archery goes against SCA core goals and social constructs, I'd like to point out that Alfred has fairly consistantly tried...

Richard Blackmoore

OK, how do you respond to the poll? Nothing happens when I click on hate it or love it.

Richard

Richard Blackmoore

Please, please, please move to Long Island NY. I love late period jousting harnesses and always wanted a bolt on frogmouth.

Richard

Richard Blackmoore

Hi Animal. No one is asking for special dispensation for knights. The point is that we are all supposed to be nobles, whether we are squires, knights or just plain nobles who fight. We are all supposed to calibrate blows based on wearing a specific harness (defined in detail in the SCA rules) that i...

Richard Blackmoore

Hi Tessa. Thank you for the explanation. Differing rules and weapons standards are also a problem for heavy weapons, so I know what you are going through. The great and wonderful state's rights approach the SCA took to heavy weapons fighting for its kingdoms led to a lot of interesting differences b...

Richard Blackmoore

Hello Tessa. I may have inadvertantly given you the impression that there should be some special status for knights giving them protection or immunity from CA arrows that other SCA heavy weapons combattants would not receive. That was not at all my point, in fact it is the opposite. My point was tha...

Richard Blackmoore

Hi Animal. I'll have to check on that particular battle, but it is likely that in that period some of the knights were in maille or maille with some plate reinforces, maybe with textile or hardened leather pieces supplementing the maille. But I'll bet the arrows did more damage to the horses or drov...

Richard Blackmoore

Tessa. That is all very interesting and somewhat of an improvement. I am a little confused on some things though: 1) Why is Lochac being exempted and allowed to use plumes instead of standard markings? This lack of standards drives me crazy and not just regarding CA, the heavy weapons fighters have ...

Richard Blackmoore

I personally was a sharpshooter/marksman. Captain of my high school rifle team and alternate to the state finals. Many people I know were in the military and were much better shots that I, had some training to perform as snipers but never actually became snipers officially. So used in the modern con...

Richard Blackmoore

Hi Tessa. That was a nicely written explanation. I was quite happy to hear that nuclear arrows have been eliminated and some more logical targetting required. We seldom see this sort of reasoned and fair attempt at compromise from CA proponents and I commend you for it. One comment however; part of ...

Richard Blackmoore

Hi Jean-Paul (de Calmont). If you guys get arrows and I have to run accross the field in full armour to kill you by getting close and still having enough breath left to yell "You're dead M'lord", then damn it, I want my horse. Hi Tessa. I've got a better one than the arrows hitting a toe being a kil...

Richard Blackmoore

Hi Tessa. No one is disputing that archers were effective or that they sometimes shot using non-volley fire. We are disputing the effectiveness of archers using bows against the fully armoured nobility and chivalry in combat. With the exception of shooting a fully armoured knight/noble in the face i...

Richard Blackmoore

Hi Madok. I just saw the comment about how you fight in the desert, no bushes, trees, etc. and how everyone can see you. The East Kingdom is my home and my main experience has been the East Coast, no deserts here or at Pennsic. So fire from hills, trees and dales, etc. as well as the occasional wood...

Richard Blackmoore

Oh and I forgot. Crossbows were powerful enough to sometimes be effective against some armour worn by the nobility, at least enough that they were worried about it. My point is that if you want to target medieval knights as an individual archer trying to take out a specific targetted fully armoured ...

Richard Blackmoore

Hi. Valid points. I was using sniper in the sense that I often see it used on this board. Meaning archers acting as individuals rather than in a group, moving quickly from position to position to attack single opponent without their knowledge and from a range where the archer is invulnerable to coun...

Richard Blackmoore

Not that I am encouraging CA on purpose, but because you mentioned it, yes archers in period sometimes employed/carried sheilds. There is a lot of debate over how common the practice of trying to use a shield while actually shooting is if you mean a hand held shield. It was definitely common in some...

Richard Blackmoore

I would like to point out that Irish, Animal and some of the others posting here have widely divergent perspectives as to what we think the SCA is trying to accomplish, especially in terms of what Era/Geographic Area/Social Classes are supposed to be our primary focus and how this results in differi...