The Armour Archive

chef de chambre

Well, Karcheski & Richardson - "The Armour of Medieval Rhodes", still in print, and $60. Get it before it goes out of print, and shoots up over $100. Von Trapp & Mann "The armoury of the Castle Churburg" recently re-printed, but a limited edition. It is running about $300, and has a useful companion...

chef de chambre

Hi Alcyoneus and Thomas, Yes, a heavy pull crossbow will penetrate most armour, especially a steel stave arblast. That is a much different weapon than is being discussed. We are discussing the Western European self-bow. Crossbows and mounted knights co-existed for centuries without the crossbow ever...

chef de chambre

Hi All, Bascot hit the nail on the head. Valuing items in the past is extremely difficult because of the changing value of items, and their relative value in a society. If you read the Spufford book "Money and it's use in the Middle Ages", he goes into some detail of how it's difficult in the extrem...

chef de chambre

To add,

There was a fashion for a padded orle (sp?) on great bascinets in the first incarnation of white armour (1400-1420), but they were a padded circlet made of very rich cloth, with jewels and pearls sewn onto them - not heraldic torses.

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Bob R.

chef de chambre

Hi Sarnac, Yes, that is a torse, it is part of a 'mundane' heraldic achievment, and is normaly worn with manteling (a cloth drape, often with a dagged edge, that covers the top and side of helmets, there was usually with later incarnations a weighted tassel on the tail of the mentel, helping to keep...

chef de chambre

.............15th century Italian stuff has clean, unbroken lines.

I think well done 14th century armour looks very good indeed. I don't think well done 14th century armour has been done to death. I think poor reproductions of 14th century armour have been done to death.

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Bob R.

chef de chambre

Hi Aaron,

The wearer can usually move his head inside this sort of helmet, although the helmet does not move.

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Bob R.

chef de chambre

What Conrad said, Stop and think - real armour is much more effective than the SCA rules of combat allow (1 good blow = end of fight) hit a 15th century fellow in full harness from a single "good blow" with a single hand sword, and he will be reminiscing with his mates how easily his pollaxe cleft y...

chef de chambre

Hi Tybolt and all, While extrapolation can be a useful tool, lack of hard documentation is over-exaggerated by most people who wish to use it. There are mountains of documentation there on all sorts of topics, from household goods, to what people wore and ate, and there are tons (at least for the la...

chef de chambre

By the way Alexi,

Your link does not work. At least not for me. That said, the picture that was posted at the top of this thread is definately mid-late 16th century.

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Bob R.

chef de chambre

Hi Reinhard, The first mention I can think of off the top of my head is "How a Man Schalle be armed", by John Hall c 1430ish (two similar manuscripts - one from the 1430's, another from the 1440's). I think that they became commonplace about the 1430's - prior to that, your looking at a full hauberg...

chef de chambre

Hi Sarnac,

I think we are in agreement.

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Bob R.

chef de chambre

Hi Bartok, The fellow isn't a bad artist, but I feel it suffers from the same problems as "Irish Wars" (the worst Osprey stinker for artwork) - the artist is a GOOD artist, but has only examined monumental brasses, and sometimes badley drawn miniatures, so they have problems interpreting how the arm...

chef de chambre

Hi Torvald, You know, if you can't afford to play a game, then you can't afford to play it. I can't afford to ski anymore, so I don't. As a question not intended to raise your ire, just putting it out there - Why does everything in the SCA have to be tailored to the lowest common denominator? A line...

chef de chambre

Hi Aaron, Tell you what - I'll submit it to the company members as a potential 3rd quarter project. The problem would be motivating Craig to make a hardened breastplate. Then getting it done in time. Maybe we could find a place to buy you a sheet of wrought iron (the company providing you with it, s...

chef de chambre

Hi Aaron,

Yes, if we run the test, we will thouroughly document it. Probably we will do it under the auspices of the Higgins Museum, and the video may be shown there as a part of their audio/visual display.

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Bob R.

chef de chambre

Hi T-Richards and Alexi, It wouldn't be the first time an editor of a book mislabled something going into print, or the MET flubbed on authenticating something. The MET is an art museum, not an armour museum. They display a fraction of their collection "for it's artistic value" - it would make you c...

chef de chambre

Hi Sarnac, I in no way doubt the effectiveness of the war bow. The specific result is what is in question. The bow was effective at 1.dismounting MAA, 2. cutting a swathe through the lesser armoured 3. creating area denial (people bunch up away from the thickest fire - psychologically seeking comfor...

chef de chambre

Hi Darvis,

Very Cool!

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Bob R.

chef de chambre

Hi Alcyoneus, The weapon was effective against the mass of an opposing army. At best, 10% of any army was composed of men in full harness. In all my research regarding the Wars of the Roses, I have yet to find an example of a man in a full harness slain by an arrow, unless they raised their visor, o...

chef de chambre

Hi Otto, It is my understanding that the very toughest thing to aquire is the "eye", that is to see an object three dimensionally, and see the nuances of it's shape. It isn't as much artistic skill as you might think - Mac claims he is no artist. The skill does help though, and Jeff Hedgecock has sa...

chef de chambre

Hi Torvald, Dosn't have to be likely just possible, how do you know what one looks like? somebody found one polished it up and put it on display. Actually, by the mid 15th century the Rennaisance was in full swing in Italy, and starting in Northern Europe,...

chef de chambre

Hi Torvald,

Simple.. A 15c Italian looking for a helm finds an old viking one and uses it.

Now, how likely a possibility would that have been?

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Bob R.

chef de chambre

Hi Kahn, Glad to be helpful! Hi Reinhard, Yep, that is from an eyewitness account in London, to paraphrase "who watched the men ride out to Barnet, hole and on good horses, but ride back again on sorry nags, sore hurt, some missing noses, some with scarred faces, who afterward were wot not to be see...

chef de chambre

Hi Torvald, <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by chef de chambre: Hi All, I just feel the need after some recent debates to p...

chef de chambre

Hi Guys, The date on that piece is clearly mislabled. That form of armour dates from the mid 16th century, and lingers on in Centeral or Eastern Europe until the mid 17th century (later in some back-waters). The form of a solid breastplate (even with the articulation, this qualifies) follows the civ...

chef de chambre

Hi Sarnac, <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Chef- I, too, look forward to reading your posts on the authenticity side.....your insights and information somtimes border on the downright amazing.....I only wish you could do it witho...

chef de chambre

Hi Alcyoneus, Actually, it's not too tough to tell what is intended to have been indicated by some miniatures (case in point, the Mac bible)by the drape of the tunic being worn under the mail (as it is being put on). Regular cloth tunics are shown with the natural drapery that thinner cloth has. In ...

chef de chambre

Hi Richard, I don't mind Chef for example talking about problems with the SCA peerage from a detached perspective. Thanks Richard. I inquired because I've seen recently a number of different things that have started my mind down a track or two. Firstly, I ...

chef de chambre

Hi Mordreth,

They put up an authentic camp. There were about a dozen of them. I won't go into naming people, as they would like to be kept out of these sorts of discussions, but if you would like to querry further, then please send me an e-mail.

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Bob R.

chef de chambre

Hi Rich, <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>This is not said to in any way excuse the actions of the gentlemen mentioned earlier in this chain, but Chivalry as you are using it has more of a victorian than a medieval flavor Rich</fo...

chef de chambre

Hi All, I just feel the need after some recent debates to point out when people who are interested in authenticity are treated predjudicialy - Quoth Torvald Aside from the Auth. Nazi's, I think I'll keep a running tab of them for a month or so, and make a...

chef de chambre

Fortunately for the late Medieval stuff, there is Gerry Embleton and Graham Turners work. Both do quite a bit of research on the subjects they paint/draw.

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Bob R.

chef de chambre

Hi Jacob, You hit the nail on the head, the Medieval armourer wasn't the entire supply line. The product in exssence (by the time plate armour became firmly established) came to them in raw material in sheet form. I'm glad you want to try it the way it was done. To the best of my knowledge, forge we...

chef de chambre

Hi Owen, Care to document this? Not that you pursue accuracy in the SCA, or even attempt to improve our lot, but more seem to enjoy cutting down those who do not meet your standards. I have spent the better part of five years on this board helping people w...