The Armour Archive

Mac

Here's the template I intend to try. The proportions are similar to Mk 1, but it's all scaled down a bit. https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ZvfUYYJAJGgGy8QwEvZykDsw9oye8sy7iatYre1azz9gSp1GfGB2VJ5LvtKEH1dNSxMXOb7CnHWbqOOk53ynjigNjxU3IKV76qNYYTHg1rDDVZsVnAK96ehVh_GqPmZtBMClf9piJS_VWVIIMQZ9x9QoCSBZLymA...

Mac

Cavpilot2000 wrote:Maybe I will look into an inter-library loan.

That's an excellent idea!

Cavpilot2000 wrote:... and Toby Capwell's English Knight 1400-1450.
Building a library.

This is a good book to have.

Mac

Mac

I've just gone back and looked at Graff Oswald's explanation of measurements in his catalog. It seems I was under a misunderstanding about how he reckoned the heights of breastplates. I had (erroneously) remembered that he treated them as straight line heights, but it looks like he measured them alo...

Mac

You could cover the steel rolls with brass though they might get a bit bulky then. Or just cut them off and replace them in brass. There is never a to late ;-) Mac, you could emboss and perhaps guild a boarder on what you have already. Would look quite nice. Gentlemen! Please! No gold stripes! The ...

Mac

I was looking at chamois on Ebay not long ago and it seems often to be listed by sq ft, which makes it easy to search. I found one or two at 6ft with rough overall dimensions given, but it's obviously a crapshoot. Thanks for that lead! I've just had a look on Ebay, and it seems pretty promising. Am...

Mac

Mac, you gonna use vegetable tanned or chromic? The real lining is probably either preserved with oxidized marine oils of tawed with alum. The closest thing we can get to that today is probably chamois (shammy). Finding a large enough piece of chamois may be trouble. Failing that, it's pretty easy ...

Mac

I think my next step will be to start in again, correcting the things that aren't quite right on this one. The things I plan to address are... --Depth of the central plate. It's clear that the real one is deeper at the level of the armpits. --Overall height. The real breast is a bit taller than mine...

Mac

In my opinion, the person who is going to buy a heat-treated C-13 is going to want the brass. I've already turned the hems, so that pretty much burns the bridges for brass. I see plenty of reenactors with much less skillfully made pieces that have the brass. I have a secrete pinterest page of those...

Mac

Something might be learned by lining it so I would vote for doing so. I'm almost afraid of what I might learn by trying to put in a liner. :o The one on the original is very thin... like nice-glove thin. The edges are all turned under, and they had to take a dart in the armscye. https://i-h1.pinimg...

Mac

Trying to get a solid understanding of the styles and construction deigns of late 14th c armor. There are tons of examples and lots of information on later (15th c) plate, but not much else that I am aware of besides the Churburg collection that documents the transitional plate period. Also, to be ...

Mac

Cavpilot2000 wrote:..... but wondering what I really get for that much money.

Let's look at this a different way. What do you hope to get?

We've been trying to answer the question of how to get you the Churburg catalog, but not addressing whether that's really what you want or need.

Mac

Mac

Like I said yesterday, plates 1 and 9 have a date with the jigsaw. After trimming those, spend some time truing up the edges a bit. Some needed a bit of grinding, and others needed to be cross-peened up a bit. https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/l-OCwauxfreDa8Ozp2axVFr041QaO4MXcVAfNBAJl6MBTQV81uN3lqNs...

Mac

This looks to be the cheapest one on the market at the moment. https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=1385429806&searchurl=tn%3Dchurburg%2Barmoury%26sortby%3D17&cm_sp=snippet-_-srp1-_-title3 The next one is noticeable more. https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=9746930802&clic...

Mac

dr.charlemagne wrote:Mac, there is an interesting pic of the back of this piece in the Hans Prunner volume I just got in the mail. Seen those?

I've got that. Thanks!

The inside view is invaluable for figuring out how the lining interacts with the various plates.

Mac

Mac

I'm sure it's a artifact of the camera (or angle, or whatnot) - but your side/back sections appear larger (longer on the front-to-back axis) than the original. Could be because it's on the table. I don't think it's just the camera. Your are right, the sides are a bit too long. The last plate is whe...

Mac

Sean M wrote: Someone needs to make Mac a linen doublet for the workshop!

Making a doublet is on my list, but it's not very high on that list.

Mac

Mac

Mac, Just checking your interpretation. It's 13 5/8" from waist to top corners at the medial side of the shoulder straps, not to the valley of the neck opening. That's my understanding, but it's not really clear from the catalog. :? (Was bored at work and figured I could amuse myself with the CAD s...

Mac

Great work as always Mac! Thank you! But to me it seems that looking at the side views that the original is a bit more rounded and deep, yours is a bit flatter. You are absolutely correct. I had a suspicion that the central plate was too shallow, but I convinced myself that it was OK. Once the side...

Mac

Thanks for all those pics, Mark!

I wish we had some way to know how "nice" the surfaces were when these were new. I'm fretting about the mallet marks on my tests, but perhaps I shouldn't.

Mac

Mac

I see that we are on a new page. There are some pics at the end of page 19 that I'd like to hear comments on.

Thanks!
Mac

Mac

I took a couple of shots of it on my paunchy person. The front, showing just enough beard that we can be sure it's me. https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/AgxA5y1Mf4sOdlNHrPkM2jriji-YBgV7-kWg3p3tJhJcOijMKV9DwNWXy4fnuLdiRK97FAuuWil8xSorkkJn6wj6MKJH0ZdmMa7SzC40csneTc-VtPq9GZRhu4cljUPRFzcsZjCJXsLT1MIqUT3...

Mac

I carved some more material off the armscyes. It's an improvement, but a little more of the same thing might help. https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/SF4P15XBDTw3mFoTIlFbVUqZIhrTlnuidvlXE4cbeSMeMfW1Lye5xy70yhdh3O7VIasOo2qh2Y-4_TRkA0k76-7I2KIXuMnr7wcouiggL2cfHKNxupxrIBz80oGVvsC1YosAywOELmAje-TMVuRuTxk...

Mac

It might be time to do the overlapping images trick again. I set a straight edge on some edges and I think I convinced myself that the fattest part of the central barrel stave is still lower with the upper edges straighter. I don't think that this iteration needs quite that much fuss. There comes a...

Mac

It looks like the arm openings on the original goes inwards towards the center and the top edge of the side plates are wider then they are in the middle. Is this because the plates are collapsed inside the front plate a bit, pivoting on a rivet at the top and one at the bottom? I see yours is at an...

Mac

I found these two close-ups of Eberhardt von Rosenburg A (1387). The first one clearly shows that there are two big rivets on each side of the central plate which we can presume to hold a sliding construction similar to Churburg 13. The second one shows the two hinges on the side plates in detail, ...

Mac

The trimming of the edges of the central plate seems to have done a lot of good, and the addition of plates 3 and 7 makes it a lot more satisfying to work with. It now stand on the table without being propped up and trying it on is a lot more meaningful. https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/mjJpDh41Ion...

Mac

Very interesting, indeed!

I think I understand what's going on, but I will not say it in public unless you give me the OK.

Mac

Mac

It looks to me as if the curvature of the #13 changes slope roughly on a level with the point of the stop rib becoming more shallow where as yours seem to have a nearly continuous curve on the vertical axis. It could be the positioning of the image but it looks as if the curvature that you put into...

Mac

This pic is from about the same distance and lens length as the previous one, but with the camera a bit higher to get some curve in the waist. It's probably too high really. I've trimmed the sides of plates 4 and 6, turned the neck flare out. I've also cross-peened up the shoulders as much as I thou...

Mac

Thanks for the additional pics and info Mark!

It looks like the mandrel I'm using is a bit to flat-sided. I'll try this again in a couple of days and see what I get.

Mac

Mac

OK. I see what your doing. Lead studs with decorative heads may well be used like pewter studs. That is to say they can be riveted onto leather belts for decoration. In our collection, we have some studs that appear to be quite "leady" and some that were probably closer to pure tin. Most are somewhe...

Mac

Here is the same thing with a longer lens. The camera is a bit too low, but the distance and lens length seem about right. The central plate is still to wide in the middle, and plates 4 and 6 are a bit wide as well. I also need to take a bit more off the armscyes. I wish I had set the shoulder angle...

Mac

Last night I trimmed some material off the central plate and the other two plates as well. The areas shaded in pencil represent what I removed from the plates. https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/o0FK9M7jozpHGnNajTszx0byXryQ7yU8bqPG5T4guWzwBxIc2ptS6MypyLlgm_EozvZqfrf_F5fnNUmB4Ubq6nG3S7UWyBZ_IwWYvaYriE...

Mac

I've had some success trimming it down. There will be a report in the morning.

Mac

Mac

I copied out the central plate template on a fresh piece of cardboard so that I could make the shoulders symmetrical and add allowances for the neck flare and waist hem. https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/9aY8GEiyknz6dAAjSRWmwBRwBTP4gpRoFIPcVbL05r5vvfFrDjwN6ocQWIFucnssev7cxZ9PQS_-Qse7Dgr457nBnEsyoXGc...

Re: Mac's blog

Re: Comprehensive Churburg Image Catalog

Re: Mac's blog

Re: Mac's blog

Re: Mac's blog

Re: Mac's blog

Re: Mac's blog

Re: Mac's blog

Re: Mac's blog

Re: Comprehensive Churburg Image Catalog

Re: Comprehensive Churburg Image Catalog

Re: Mac's blog

Re: Comprehensive Churburg Image Catalog

Re: Mac's blog

Re: Mac's blog

Re: Mac's blog

Re: Mac's blog

Re: Mac's blog

Re: 1360s Scabbard Project

Re: Mac's blog

Re: Mac's blog

Re: Mac's blog

Re: Mac's blog

Re: Mac's blog

Re: Mac's blog

Re: Mac's blog

Re: Lead Tacks/Studs

Re: Mac's blog

Re: Mac's blog

Re: 1360s Scabbard Project

Re: Lead Tacks/Studs

Re: Mac's blog

Re: Mac's blog

Re: Mac's blog

Re: Mac's blog