The Armour Archive

Mac

So... having seen the image of the bevor with the helmet , I got to thinking that my search image might be off, so I checked to see if the line drawing I remembered was in Boeheim's Handbuch. The results were mixed. The thing I remember does not seem to be in there, but Herr Doktor B. does show the ...

Mac

If only a group of arnourers and people with a lot of knowledge about these things could make a group trip to Vienna and look at these things on site... It also brings up the idea that I must have walked right past it two years ago and not seen it. :evil: Oh... the cruel taunting! :cry: Mac

Mac

It is very obvious when you point it out. Sorry, I do this all the time, to everybody. I am fated to be "that guy" :roll: I am thinking maybe a bit of all three to even it out. Tilt the angle of the comb slightly, move out the chin and flatten the face a bit. Some millimeters on all three should do...

Mac

Sean, Have you got a pic that shows the lateral edges of his cuisses? As I looked at this again today, I had a thought... https://bookandsword.files.wordpress.com/2020/02/cuisse_with_inner_wrapper_khm_hjrk_a_184.jpg?h=1024 .. Since this armor has had a rough afterlife (what, with a fire and all) I w...

Mac

Perhaps this is “red car syndrome” since I’ve been pondering linings, however, does the Sforza statue arrangement seem suggestive of some type of liner to anyone else, rather than plate? That bit around the knee with the strap running over it is what’s jumping out at me. https://bookandsword.files....

Mac

this fellow appears to be a bit of an outlier with respect to the medial edges of his cuisses.

A better image can be found here

Mac

Mac

That puts the rose closer to the ear, and does not do any violence to the design. I like the comb, :) but I see a problem. :sad: The curve of the nasal bar determines the path it takes when it slides up, and that path carries it into the comb. You could flatten the comb in front a bit, and have more...

Mac

St. George in the Met features something looking a lot like a rotational collar bevor. https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/467786 That's the thing. We have lots of iconographic examples of articulated gorgets without bevors and lots of examples of bevors that look like they are attached...

Mac

These pics just came across my Pinterest feed today. I have a memory of having seen a line drawing of this bevor arrangement in a German language armor book in the Cornell U library back in the early '80s, but have not been able remember what book. It's been haunting me, on and off, for decades. htt...

Mac

Pure genius, Chris!

Mac

Mac

Pulling the hinges back need not alter the neck lames at all. The place where the cheek plates meet the neck can remain in the same location if you want it to. I would guess that that location will be very near to the widest place in the neck. Mac That is true, but as my sketch is now, to keep the ...

Mac

I think you could pull the holes closer the the ear by pulling the hinges back a bit. The one in Graz has its holes only slightly too far forward to be in the anatomically best location. Mac It looks like you are right. I have avoided pulling it further back because that force me to extend the chee...

Mac

If anyone has advice on integral hinges that can spare me further frustration, I'm all ears. I probably made it harder than it needed to be. Integral hinges are a pain in the butt. The fact that they persisted as long as they did before being replaced by riveted-on hinges is a mystery to me. I supp...

Mac

Shouldn't the rose sit on the ear? If the ear is in the center of the head and the top aligned with the eye I would say more to the rigth an a bit higher. They are usually positioned about where I have it. The hinge is usually located around the ear. It seems like the "ear" holes in helmets are not...

Mac

https://pin.it/yqcpya2z4ozdgm (I am sorry, I do not know the wizardry required to display pictures from pinterest in posts). -Get the pinterest image open -Right click on the image -Chose "copy image location" -In AA, click on "img" in tool bar -Paste the location between the bracketed image marker...

Mac

I moved the hinge and rose a bit and added the bar in the front. That look nice! If you put an etched border around the neck to match the one around the face, it will frame out the rose nicely. See anything that I should adress now before moving on? (I extended the brim about 12mm after this photo ...

Mac

I did a search as it seems that you fine gentlemen have discussed this topic a bit previously and Mac suggested experimenting. http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=2612225#p2612225 I followed your link, and reread what I had to say back in '14, and still don't have any better idea...

Mac

Perhaps you could move the hinge and the rose down a bit. This addresses two problems at once.

I would not make the chin any smaller. It's one of those places where modern makers tend to wimp out; so it's better to have a little "push back" here.

Mac

Mac

The idea for the cheeks at the temples is to stretch a ridge in the cheeks so they go over the end of the brim like on the original I guess. Or? What you describe is certainly the best way, and the way it is done on nice helmets. There are cheep helmets that just have a notch for the brim. If you c...

Mac

My random thoughts are: I want to flatten out the top of the brim a bit to better match the Graz one. This also close up the opening around the eyes, making it easier to keep it less than 25mm. An easy and adaptable solution might be to plan to install an internal plate that defined the upper edge ...

Mac

I like that pretty much!

How do you feel about it?

What are you going to do at the temples; where the cheek pieces interact with the brim?

Mac

Mac

I like those changes pretty much. Are you ready for round 2? :wink: Mac I am ready! What do you want me to do? :D Alrighty! ---The change to the curve of the crown of the skull was in the right direction , but I think a bit more of the same would help to make it "pop". There is a sort of a flat spo...

Mac

I like those changes pretty much.

Are you ready for round 2?

Mac

Mac

This is the best I could find. And I have been asking around. Yes, its the one in Graz. https://pin.it/icj74afmshcar4 For what it's worth; I think this is shown at a very convincing "wearing angle". If we had a side view of the same, it would be easy to compare that to your sketches. https://i.pini...

Mac

That's the one in Graz, yes? I may have something in a book. You might also see if Wade or Tom B have pics they are willing to share. Mac There is a front view in the little Graz guide book, but no side view. I'm pretty sure this helmet is also in the catalog of the traveling exhibit, but I can't f...

Mac

Xtracted wrote:I started a pinterest board where I can save the pictures I have of this kind of helmets because of all the work I have to do to get one picture in a post here from google photos.

https://pin.it/ehnl676p4jpgic

Good plan! Pinterest images almost always post here without any fuss.

Mac

Mac

I must shamefully admit that I am not working from one original purely but I have been forced to puzzle a bit with details because of weak moments in my past when I didn't know better and SCA fighters scare of tall combs and such. Yea... all the modern fighting guys are afraid of tall helmets, and ...

Mac

OK.. So, here are my thoughts, so far.... --My first impression is that the helmet should be rotated forward a bit. Not much, only a couple of degrees. I'd like to see the openings for the eyes be a bit closer to horizontal. --That rotation will have the effect of raising the neck in back, which is ...

Mac

I've got a couple of first impressions, but I'd like to see some pics of the helmet or helmets you are working from before I open my mouth and put my foot in it. :wink: I recognize the type, and I'm pretty sure that there are three or four of them out there, but I was only able to get a good side vi...

Mac

There was someone at the meetings of the Armor and Arms Club that used to pester me about writing a book on Winkelmeyer, but he wasn't willing to spring for all the travel that would be necessary to do the research. I think that if you (or anyone) were to pull together all the things attributed to ...

Mac

Here are a couple of things to think about with respect to the fauld rivets.... --It's true, that placing the rivets closer to the "ends" of the lames will let them move more freely; but that's not necessarily what you want. Locating them a bit farther forward will make the system have a certain amo...

Mac

Here is a very useful side view sketch from W. Boeheim's book https://i.pinimg.com/564x/38/be/92/38be9287cab66185fc0b4da69ec10c91.jpg It not only shows the ideal shape for the armscyes, but also the placement of the articulation rivets for the fauld and cullet. After I cut down the cullet lames' len...

Mac

There might be a terminology problem here. Is the cullet only the back tasset or the complete fauld on the back plate (the overlapping bands of steel that cover the area from slightly below the small of the back downwards) It's not clear whether "cullet" historically included the entire skirt of th...

Mac

Would the bottom edge of the upper cuisse be roughly horizontal, like a tasset, or angled up towards the hipbone like the stop rib? I believe that the upper cuisse would underlap the lower cuisse by some more or less even amount, and run parallel to that hem/stop rib. My expectation is about and in...

Mac

Can someone who groks 16th century armour tell me what is going on? Is there some way to detach the bottom half of the cuisses? Of course, I do not Grok it in fullness.... but my understanding is that the cuisses of this type can usually be separated at this line. Persumably, the lower cuisses and ...

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