The Armour Archive

Mac

Does anyone know more about it? Talbot has previously dubbed it "...a possibly real knee that has been greatly mucked about with! " I feel a bit more positive about it than Talbot does. I think it is *probably* a real knee that has been mucked around with. I think it likely to be a real k...

Mac

It is a very curious thing. To the best of my knowledge the vast majority of extant mail shirts ( I dare not say "all") have the grain of the sleeves running in the "T tunic" direction. Even voider sleeves have the grain this way. The arms are tapered by dropping rows, two at a t...

Mac

Gaston,

There is nothing keeping the sleeves of the habergeon in the vambraces. The sleeves can not slide easily up the forearm because they are tapered. I believe they stay in place and don't cause any trouble; or at least, G has not complained to me that they do.

Mac

Mac

In conclusion, I would like to add that I believe that a full mail chausse under a closed greave and closed cuisse is very unlikely. Such a thing would be heavy, bulky, uncomfortable, and unnecessary. Hi Mac, what is your opinion on a full mail sleeve under closed vambraces and/or rerebraces? Same ...

Mac

Kegan, The tragic truth is that there are no known surviving English greaves from that period. If there were an internal leather strip,it would probably have been fastened with flush rivets. That being the case, the effigy carvers would not have bothered to show the rivet heads. Hell!... they someti...

Mac

I'm almost sure it's not a historical meathod, though if you have full cuissies, you could just drill holes along the lower edge of the back. Then just put wires through the holes, and use them to twistie-tie the mail on the inside. If you're good, you might be able to hide the wires wiht an edge r...

Mac

The maile at the Black Prince's ankle is a bit of a puzzle. His effigy is missing a lot of details like hinges and rivets on his arm harness, but there's also no evidence of that ankle being a separate patch. There's maile at the back of the knee going down into the top of his greave, and there's m...

Mac

Interesting, thanks. It sounds like, as with so many things in armor design, there was no single 'correct' way, but several possible solutions. Given that, I think I'll go with my fully hinged design (fig. 1) just because this will be my first attempt at an articulated elbow, and having it fully op...

Mac

Very nicely done!

Mac

Mac

Even good olde Wikipedea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Maurice

You are on your own now,
Mac

Mac

Here's some more.

It looks like that painting has been attributed to just about a every 15th c artist born at or below see level.

http://nicepaintings.org/works/99681

Mac

Mac

I searched "van der goes st. victor"

http://www.heritage-images.com/Preview/ ... id=1630138

It is in older books as St Victor. I don't know if the identity of the Saint has been changed to Maurice.

Mac

Mac

Handsomely done!

Mac

Mac

I always think of those as "step flutes" rather than "half flutes".

It's a very powerful technique...isn't it Pitbull? You will find that using them on knee and elbow wings will be very gratifying.

Mac

Mac

I fear that my question may have been lost in the shuffle, so I will ask it again. Do we have some reason to believe that the Japanese used raw hide, rather than tanned leather? Mac I don't believe the statement that rawhide was used would be at all preclusive of hardened leather. Quite so Norman. ...

Mac

Kel,

You make a good point about the omnidirectional orientation of the collagen fibers in hide. I am somewhat embarrassed for not having thought of that. I should think things through more carefully before I type.

Mac

Mac

Pitbull,

I think it most likely that the visor is all one piece. That is to say,
that the brow reinforce is part of the visor.

Mac

Mac

The only thing for sure is that those artists were very good at detailing things and at the same time being creative and drawing in a very peculiar way. I mean, it's very hard to tell where the depiction of reality stops and where fantasy begin. It's a bit like modern movies, you can't say for sure...

Mac

I have moved these two images to the same post for
comparison. It took me a while to recognize that they
were the same painting!

Thanks again Christian for making this detail available!

Mac

Mac

In that respect, it wouldn't be that dissimilar to layered hide used by Tatars. Regular hide glue would do -- once treated with the lacquer, it'd be essentially impervious to humidity. Russ, Is the Tartar stuff you refer to made of raw hide or some sort of tanned leather? What sorts of things do th...

Mac

Nice work. My only comment would be that from what I have heard historical examples had an articulating plate between the metacarple plate and the fingers. I don't have pics of an example of this but it may be something to look for when doing research in to the next pair. Wulfgar, His finger leathe...

Mac

Nice looking gauntlet Graham. From what I can see in the pics they should work OK. (You have made a pair, n'est pas?) Here are a couple of things I see that I would have have done differently. You might consider them on your next pair. --The angle between the back of the hand and the knuckles looks ...

Mac

I fear that my question may have been lost in the shuffle, so I will ask it again. Do we have some reason to believe that the Japanese used raw hide, rather than tanned leather? Mac Mac, I asked Trevor Absolon the owner of Toraba.com, he has an incredible knowledge of methods and materials used in ...

Mac

Christian, Thank you for posting those images, especially the Crucifixion details. There is a very striking how similarities between the bevor of the helmet of the crossbowman and the bevors of some of the other figures that Laib has depicted. He shows very similar things being worn with kettle hats...

Mac

Jeff, You make a very good point about how we all put our own "spins" on interpreting period armor. I try to avoid it, but I might just as well try to avoid breathing. I like your idea of trying to draw the thing just as the artist meant it, and making it work later. I like to combine thos...

Mac

Dierick, That guy or the right is not a time traveler; he's a Roman, so he wears old fashioned armor to let us knot "this happened a long time ago". This sort of historical perspective can be seen quite strikingly in the Resurrection painting by Matthias Grunewald in the Isenheim Altarpiec...

Mac

Chris, It seems conflicting. The more I look at the outline of the helmet skull, the more it seems to be one smooth curve. On the other hand, the highlight does get narrower in a way that suggests a point of some sort. Nos that I am looking at the highlights, I see that the artist has not been consi...

Mac

I fear that my question may have been lost in the shuffle, so I will ask it again.

Do we have some reason to believe that the Japanese used raw hide, rather than tanned leather?

Mac

Mac

Dierick,

When and where is the first painting from? Is it Laib's
Crucifixion from 1457 in Graz?

Mac

Mac

Irish, You are quite right about the posible "gaposis" of the visor with respect to the crest lines on the cheeks. Laib did not address that is his painting, but surely the visor must continue the crests, at least a little. I am having trouble understanding your point about the chin. Can y...

Mac

Jestyr,

I agree with you about the point. Like I said above,
the point is out and the round head is in.

Your comments and insightful image handling are a
very important part of this group project.

Mac

Mac

Jeff, Thanks for posting your sketch. It's always good to see different interpretations. It helps to thicken the stew. You have finally won me over to the "no point" point of view. I find that the point dies hard, but the more I look at the painting, the harder it is to convince myself tha...

Mac

Regarding the Japanese leather armour - To get detailed - If I am not misrecollecting, those are actualy rawhide covered by thick lacquer. This is my recollection as well. Dry rawhide is, however, "hard", although I wouldn't call it "hardened". The place where the lacquer has co...

Mac

I have toned down the chin in response to popular demand.
I think it looks better.

Mac

[img]http://billyandcharlie.com/kastenbasinet4.jpg[/img]

Mac

Dierick, I like your early sketch. I wish I could see what is happening in that second figure you posted. I have largely been ignoring it except for the bevor. I wonder if any of our geekier guys can extract any more information fro the shadows. There are some extant great basinets which have the be...