Lamellar

Armour Guy · Post by **Armour Guy** » Sat May 20, 2000 12:41 am

What I wouldn't do for an autocad... Just set him up in the garage and start ordering pieces. "Auto-Cad, I want a burgundian gothic harness..." "Auto-Cad, I want fingered gaunts" etc...

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~AG
Utopia Armoury

APOCALYPSE · Post by **APOCALYPSE** » Sat May 20, 2000 9:27 am

I can dig it. Let me know when you get the drawing ready.

Erichvoneisental · Post by **Erichvoneisental** » Sat May 20, 2000 10:49 pm

Trouble is I need a rough idea of what you want. Any links to a scale pic so I can get the right shape/number of holes.

Dmitriy · Post by **Dmitriy** » Sat May 20, 2000 11:32 pm

Something like this, 1x4, I've no clue on a good hole radius.

[img]http://24.16.32.204/pics/birkaplate.jpg[/img]

-Dmitriy

Robert C · Post by **Robert C** » Sat May 20, 2000 11:42 pm

I am still wondering about shipping. Is this FOB at this guy's shop? If there is shipping, roughly what is the cost?

Joe Skeesick · Post by **Joe Skeesick** » Sun May 21, 2000 10:15 am

That be the one Dmitriy. Should be a pretty easy to get the file created. As for hole size thats trickier.... assuming your using 6mm cording, an 8mm hole would be about acceptable...... but I'm sure everyones cording differently.... hmmmm

Janos

APOCALYPSE · Post by **APOCALYPSE** » Sun May 21, 2000 10:24 am

Rob- I will order all the plates at one time in one order to reduce the price per plate. After they are all done, I will have to manually seperate the amounts of plates per person and ship them individually.

rmermuys · Post by **rmermuys** » Sun May 21, 2000 1:30 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Dmitriy:
Something like this, 1x4, I've no clue on a good hole radius.

[img]http://24.16.32.204/pics/birkaplate.jpg[/img]

-Dmitriy<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Chances are, if the plate is 1" then your radius if you want a full round top will be .500 which should be .500 from center top. Then if you want a nice curve on the two bottom edges, you could go .250 up and to the right on the bottom edge or maybe .125 and then a .250 or .125 radius.

On one of the other posts, Janos said he thought a 8mm hole would be good. 8mm converts to .315 which is not a standard drill size. I'd say go with 5/16 or .3125 for the holes.

Those machine shop type people usually talk in thousandths of an inch. So this might help them if you talk their language.

I believe if you say you want a .500 radius on the top, I'm going to assume they'll just make a nice half round on the top without loosing any unnecessary metal.

If you say you want a .125 radius on the bottom edges to round off the corners, a mechanical draftsperson should be able to whip that up.

Then on to the hole placement.

From the picture, it looks like the holes are placed .250 apart and .125 from the edges.

The numbers I'm using are .281 which is 1/2 the diameter of the hole (.312) or .156 plus 1/8 of an inch or .125 = .281

The other number is .406 which is 1/2 of the diameter of the hole (.312) or .156 plus 1/2 of an inch or .250 = .406

So if we want to grid these holes out. We'd want a hole starting at the bottom and going up at .297 x .281 and .703 x .281 (The two bottom holes)

Then .281 x 1.000 and then .281 x 1.406
Then .719 x 1.000 and then .719 x 1.406

Then .281 x 2.750 and then .281 x 3.156
Then .719 x 2.750 and then .719 x 3.156

.500 x .281 (Leaving about .125 from the top when the hole is punched/cut) and another at .500 x 0.687

The numbers I have chosen are only a guess, but might get the project a little closer. Don't take this word for word. It was only a guess.

I'll see if I can dig up my copy of Autocad and cad this thing.

-Randall of Turm An Dem See

APOCALYPSE · Post by **APOCALYPSE** » Sun May 21, 2000 1:54 pm

I printed it out for referance. Let me know when this baecomes finalized measurements and I'll Xfer it to Jim.

Joe Skeesick · Post by **Joe Skeesick** » Sun May 21, 2000 2:04 pm

ooo.... impressive.... bet I can guess what you do for a living. [img]http://www.armourarchive.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] I appreciate you bringing your expertise to bare rmermuys.

Apoc, did you say you were going to have the order open for 2 weeks? Seems like a long time, but that probably has to do with my anticipation of getting the plates. Would love to cut down the time to under a month total turn around, but what happens happens.

Thanks again for all the work

Janos

APOCALYPSE · Post by **APOCALYPSE** » Sun May 21, 2000 3:10 pm

I just didn't want anyone to miss out on it. I felt if I left it open for two weeks, nobody can come in late and get all depressed.

rmermuys · Post by **rmermuys** » Sun May 21, 2000 4:02 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Janos:
ooo.... impressive.... bet I can guess what you do for a living.

I appreciate you bringing your expertise to bare rmermuys.

Janos<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Okay. A couple measurements were out of wack, but most of them were done off the top of my head. The dims on this autocad file should be accurate. I whipped this up in only one view to make it only one file, but it's more cluttered.

The 5/16 holes seem to be a little large.

Please note that the .JPG is not to scale.

[img]http://sca.sts.net/armor/1x4.jpg[/img]

-Randall of Turm An Dem See

rmermuys · Post by **rmermuys** » Sun May 21, 2000 4:04 pm

And no, I'm accually a Computer Network Engineer... I just happen to work for a company that does metal stamping and hear the guys talking about Thousandths all the time. Then again, I was into drafting for a long time.

-Randall of Turm An Dem See

rmermuys · Post by **rmermuys** » Sun May 21, 2000 4:09 pm

Some corrections were...

.500 x 3.719 (Leaving about .128 from the top when the hole is punched/cut) and another at .500 x 3.323

-Randall of Turm An Dem See

rmermuys · Post by **rmermuys** » Sun May 21, 2000 4:14 pm

As you can see, with 2 holes at 5/16" (0.3125) we end up with only 0.375 of metal left horizontally.

My opinion would be either smaller holes, or slightly wider plates. Unless it looks good to everyone on here.

-Randall of Turm An Dem See

Joe Skeesick · Post by **Joe Skeesick** » Sun May 21, 2000 6:42 pm

Yes, the holes as stated are much too large. What if we went with a 6mm hole. I got to thinking after I posted that a 6mm lace would thin out quite abit after it was loaded with weight. 6mm may be the correct size to go with. That should dramatically drop the relative size down.

Again, thanks for the work.

Janos

rmermuys · Post by **rmermuys** » Sun May 21, 2000 6:56 pm

I thought I'd make up a Lamellar pic using 1.5" x 4" and 5/16" holes.

I'll see if I can redo the 1x4 with smaller holes.

[img]http://sca.sts.net/armor/1_5x4.jpg[/img]

-Randall of Turm An Dem See

rmermuys · Post by **rmermuys** » Sun May 21, 2000 7:04 pm

Well, 6mm is .236

1/4 = .2500
7/32 = .2188
3/16 = .1875

I guess the next question is, do they have steel punches for the die that are 6mm or do we have to go with Inches?

It just gets crazy with the different measurments. [img]http://www.armourarchive.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

-Randall of Turm An Dem See

Dmitriy · Post by **Dmitriy** » Mon May 22, 2000 1:59 am

Just wanted to thank Randall for his work [img]http://www.armourarchive.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

-Dmitriy

APOCALYPSE · Post by **APOCALYPSE** » Mon May 22, 2000 12:42 pm

Just got off the phone with Jim and he stated inches will work best for him. You kinda have me confused with the differant drawings. Let me know which one is the finalized draft and I will fax it off to Jim.

rmermuys · Post by **rmermuys** » Mon May 22, 2000 3:42 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by APOCALYPSE:
Just got off the phone with Jim and he stated inches will work best for him. You kinda have me confused with the differant drawings. Let me know which one is the finalized draft and I will fax it off to Jim.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Does everyone want to go with 1x4"?

The second drawing is 1.5x4".

I'm going to redraw the 1x4" with say, 3/16" holes and see how it looks.

-Randall of Turm An Dem See

The Lost Scott · Post by **The Lost Scott** » Mon May 22, 2000 3:51 pm

I like the 1.5X4 think it would work a little better and be easier and less tedious.
my 2 cents

[This message has been edited by The Lost Scott (edited May 22, 2000).]

Armour Guy · Post by **Armour Guy** » Tue May 23, 2000 7:57 am

I like the 1.5" by 4", with slightly smaller holes... I dunno, I've never made lamellar, but 6mm cord seems WAY too thick to me - I was thinking we'd all use say 2mm or maybe even 3 mm cording. Am I wrong? Slightly off base?

------------------
~AG
Utopia Armoury

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue May 23, 2000 9:44 am

I tend to think that 1"x4" would look better, and that is the size of the burka style plate that every one was excited about in the first place. and is it me or didn't we already have a discusion of holesize on on of the other threads. If Iremember right a 1/8th to 3/16-inch hole was recomended (decided on?). just my $0.02.

------------------
Talon of Pentwyvern
Legio Darkyard

-Let's just say that if complete and utter chaos was lightning, then he'd be the sort to stand on a hilltop in a thunderstorm wearing copper armour and shouting "ALL THE GODS ARE BASTARDS!"

rmermuys · Post by **rmermuys** » Tue May 23, 2000 10:23 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Talon-of -Pentwyvern:
I tend to think that 1"x4" would look better, and that is the size of the burka style plate that every one was excited about in the first place. and is it me or didn't we already have a discusion of holesize on on of the other threads. If Iremember right a 1/8th to 3/16-inch hole was recomended (decided on?). just my $0.02.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not familiar with the birka plate. I'll redraw the 1x4" with 3/16" holes and post it. Hopefully I can get that done tonight.

-Randall of Turm An Dem See

Joe Skeesick · Post by **Joe Skeesick** » Tue May 23, 2000 11:05 am

I agree, the ability to get a authentic size/look with the lamellar was where the initial interest came from. We just need to figure out the holes and strapping issues on the current size.

BTW Randall, the image above is the birka plate.

Janos

[This message has been edited by Janos (edited May 23, 2000).]

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue May 23, 2000 11:06 am

-Randall - The burka style plat is posted further up on the page (the dwg) is labeled "2". and, if I,m wrong someone please corect me. all four corners have the same radus and look to be off set.

Hope that helps.

------------------
Talon of Pentwyvern
Legio Darkyard

-Let's just say that if complete and utter chaos was lightning, then he'd be the sort to stand on a hilltop in a thunderstorm wearing copper armour and shouting "ALL THE GODS ARE BASTARDS!"

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » Tue May 23, 2000 11:22 am

HEY GUYS!!!!
i am not in this project but 6mm holes would be pretty big holes!!!
Don't go for anything larger than 1/8".
TIP:make a few scales from cardboard and see how they look.

greetinx
dennis

rmermuys · Post by **rmermuys** » Tue May 23, 2000 11:35 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Janos:
I agree, the ability to get a authentic size/look with the lamellar was where the initial interest came from. We just need to figure out the holes and strapping issues on the current size.

BTW Randall, the image above is the birka plate.

Janos

[This message has been edited by Janos (edited May 23, 2000).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not up to date on Birka Lamellar... Does anyone have a picture of a full suit?

-Randall of Turm An Dem See

The Lost Scott · Post by **The Lost Scott** » Tue May 23, 2000 11:35 am

OK I've seen the light birka it is 1"x4" small holes

rmermuys · Post by **rmermuys** » Tue May 23, 2000 11:39 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Dennis:
HEY GUYS!!!!
i am not in this project but 6mm holes would be pretty big holes!!!
Don't go for anything larger than 1/8".
TIP:make a few scales from cardboard and see how they look.

greetinx
dennis<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

6mm is .236" 3/16" is .1875" I asked around, and some friends with Lamellar have 3/16" holes. They're using 3/16" Parachute Cord and some are using Leather Strip. We'll see how that looks tonight.

-Randall of Turm An Dem See

rmermuys · Post by **rmermuys** » Tue May 23, 2000 12:18 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by The Lost Scott:
OK I've seen the light birka it is 1"x4" small holes<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So the question is, how small are the holes?

I've been doing some thinking on how this thing is all going to get laced up, and I'm wondering what the pattern is?

The Eight holes on the sides are probably for lacing latterally, and the holes on top are to lace to the holes on the bottom of the row above it.

Do the plates land directly on top of one another, or are they offset to the left or right by anything?

If they are directly one above the other, then I'd guess that you go through the left hole on the top plate, then through the bottom hole in the bottom plate, then through the top hole in the bottom plate and then through the right hole on the top plate.

Wash, rinse, repeat.

Does this sound good or am I just clueless?

-Randall of Turm An Dem See

rmermuys · Post by **rmermuys** » Tue May 23, 2000 12:20 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Talon-of -Pentwyvern:
-Randall - The burka style plat is posted further up on the page (the dwg) is labeled "2". and, if I,m wrong someone please corect me. all four corners have the same radus and look to be off set.

Hope that helps.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The radius on the top looks more rounded then the bottom plates, thus how I represented it on the cad file.

Please, if this is wrong, let me know so I can change it. Should there be a full half circle on the top or should there be a flat edge?

-Randall of Turm An Dem See

Joe Skeesick · Post by **Joe Skeesick** » Tue May 23, 2000 12:26 pm

agreed... it does look more rounded.... but I'm not sure its full radius.

btw, not picking, I apreciate your work on this.

Janos

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue May 23, 2000 3:19 pm

just sent you a E-mail with, another picture of the plate. Didn't know if it would help, but you never know.

And I'm with Janos, you and Apoc are both kicking some serious ass moving this thing along. Big thanks to both of you.

------------------
Talon of Pentwyvern
Legio Darkyard

-Let's just say that if complete and utter chaos was lightning, then he'd be the sort to stand on a hilltop in a thunderstorm wearing copper armour and shouting "ALL THE GODS ARE BASTARDS!"