retitled: Proper tools for audax's greave making enterprise

audax · Post by **audax** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 4:06 pm

Sent you a pm, handsome.

Halberds · Post by **Halberds** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 5:05 pm

Hi Audax,

If you do not mind I would like to try and answer your questions here,
as the community conscious and experience far exceeds your humble servant.

Challenge 1.
Set rivets inside curves and ankle portion, like for studded greaves.

First, do you want to peen your rivets on the inside or outside?
____________________________________________________________

Challenge 2.
Something for creating the ankle portion of a greave.

First, how do you hold your stakes (vice, tool holder,clamp to bench etc)?

My standard Y-Stake will help somewhat.
However I have a couple of ideas rolling around for a dedicated horizontal stake for shrinking the ankle portion of the greaves.

One will need a heavier raising hammer which I can grind to shape from a 1-1/2 pound ball peen.
Also the use of heat is highly recommended, as one will need to collapse the metal in upon itself.
Cutting slots and welding is an option if you have the equipment.

So... what does the more learned members have to say about this challange?
Your ideas, opinions and discussion are appreciated.

Hal

audax · Post by **audax** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:23 pm

First, I just want to be clear I working in leather. I think heating them with a blowtorch could be a problem. :wink:

I'd like to pein the rivets from the outside.

At present I don't really have any stake holder. I plan on getting a smallish anvil (15-20 lbs) with a hardie hole in the top to hold a stake ot two. Or I suppose I could just add a vise to my work table to hold a stake. Then I could just pick up a portion of railroad trakc for an anvil for rivet setting and such.

Thanks for the help.

Halberds · Post by **Halberds** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 4:07 pm

Leather

I sent PM.
I don't think the folks want to hear about how we design your leather work tooling.

Sorry about my rambling on in the above post.

Hal

____________________
Happy Leather Pounding

audax · Post by **audax** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 4:14 pm

Halberds wrote:Leather

I sent PM.
I don't think the folks want to hear about how we design your leather work tooling.

Sorry about my rambling on in the above post.

Hal

____________________
Happy Leather Pounding

Responded.

I find your rambling more informative than many folks "advice", so no worries.

Sean Powell · Post by **Sean Powell** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 5:40 pm

Not certain if any of this applies but it might spark a few ideas.

I would think that the best way to form a leather greave would be a wooden last of the shin and ankle that included part of the swale of the foot. It might even be possible to purchase parts of a store mannequin that had body damage but good legs...

Riveting inside tight areas is always tricky. I occasionally use my smaller ball stake since it is heavier and smaller then my smallest ball-peen. Other times I have braced a blunt chisel on the rivet so I could hammer farther away (like through a bar-grill). On occasion I have placed the tip of a copper rivet on a small ball stake and hammered on the flat head like it was a nail, by moving the rivet around on the ball I could 'peen' it into shape.

Best of luck!

Sean

Johann Lederer · Post by **Johann Lederer** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:43 am

audax wrote:At present I don't really have any stake holder. I plan on getting a smallish anvil (15-20 lbs) with a hardie hole in the top to hold a stake ot two. Or I suppose I could just add a vise to my work table to hold a stake. Then I could just pick up a portion of railroad trakc for an anvil for rivet setting and such.

my .02...

Good ideas, except I don't think you will be happy with a 15-20" anvil as a stake holder. As much as I hate to admit it....I have a 50# Harbor freight anvil that I use for setting rivets and as a leather former. I guess their ASO's have some use....
A decent vice will be your friend with stakes...

Happy forming!

mattmaus · Post by **mattmaus** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:00 am

Johann Lederer wrote:I have a 50# Harbor freight anvil that I use for setting rivets and as a leather former. I guess their ASO's have some use....

Why do you hate to admit this? There is a lot to be sed for owning a mercedes, but there's no shame to be had in owning something else.

As far as uses go...

Harbor freight 55lb aso's have lots of purposes.

They are good for setting rivets. They very soon look like the surface of the moon, but you don't need to worry about a rivet set, lead block or other shenanigans to keep rivets round.

They are really good for kids or inexperienced people to work on when they demonstrate a complete lack of hammer control that you do not trust your good anvil to suffer through.

They are handy to have for chisel cutting, hot or cold. You know you're gonna mess it up, but that's why you use it rather than damaging both chisel and anvil doing it on the 'good' anvil.

They develop soft corners, handy for turning a slight radius without a lot of scarring on the work.

They work fine for most repairs that you would want to do in the feild, and are portable enough to be taken with you. Or, when it's too darned cold to go out to the workshop you can bring them into the house and flatten rings for mail on one and the wife knows that it's not an invasion but just a visit.

They are a nice chunk of moveable mass handy for propping up stuff for welding, grinding or other stuff.

They will mostly work as an anvil... just.. not as nice as some other options that are generaly less easy to find and aquire.

They're not perfect. But they can still do stuff.

Kilkenny · Post by **Kilkenny** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:24 am

Haven't found a place in a greave I can't get a hammer to for setting rivets on the inside yet, so I'm kind of confused by part of the premise here. The piece where I have run into a bit of difficulty is doing studded cuisses. There, the cuisse wraps around far enough that getting at some of the rivets can involve angles where your backswing is limited.

Having a last is helpful for forming leather, but one of the nice things about working with it is that almost any forming that needs to be done really can be done with hands alone. Leather is very plastic when damp and can be persuaded to move around quite a bit really easily.

Pitbull Armory · Post by **Pitbull Armory** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:25 am

Hi there, Id set the rivets from inside, any marks made by misses will not matter then. I think Sean has it right about the wooden form also. Log+sawzall+angle grinder=good shaped leather I think. Good luck

Take care

Pitbull

audax · Post by **audax** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:12 pm

Kilkenny wrote:Haven't found a place in a greave I can't get a hammer to for setting rivets on the inside yet, so I'm kind of confused by part of the premise here. The piece where I have run into a bit of difficulty is doing studded cuisses. There, the cuisse wraps around far enough that getting at some of the rivets can involve angles where your backswing is limited.

Having a last is helpful for forming leather, but one of the nice things about working with it is that almost any forming that needs to be done really can be done with hands alone. Leather is very plastic when damp and can be persuaded to move around quite a bit really easily.

I suspect your Grace has a much better tooling set up than I do. I can tell from the quality of the work you do. I want the greaves I make and trade to be good looking and durable so I'm just getting the right tools for the job.

Johann Lederer · Post by **Johann Lederer** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:12 pm

mattmaus wrote:
Johann Lederer wrote:I have a 50# Harbor freight anvil that I use for setting rivets and as a leather former. I guess their ASO's have some use....

Why do you hate to admit this? There is a lot to be sed for owning a mercedes, but there's no shame to be had in owning something else.

As far as uses go...

Harbor freight 55lb aso's have lots of purposes.

They are good for setting rivets. They very soon look like the surface of the moon, but you don't need to worry about a rivet set, lead block or other shenanigans to keep rivets round.

They are really good for kids or inexperienced people to work on when they demonstrate a complete lack of hammer control that you do not trust your good anvil to suffer through.

They are handy to have for chisel cutting, hot or cold. You know you're gonna mess it up, but that's why you use it rather than damaging both chisel and anvil doing it on the 'good' anvil.

They develop soft corners, handy for turning a slight radius without a lot of scarring on the work.

They work fine for most repairs that you would want to do in the feild, and are portable enough to be taken with you. Or, when it's too darned cold to go out to the workshop you can bring them into the house and flatten rings for mail on one and the wife knows that it's not an invasion but just a visit.

They are a nice chunk of moveable mass handy for propping up stuff for welding, grinding or other stuff.

They will mostly work as an anvil... just.. not as nice as some other options that are generaly less easy to find and aquire.

They're not perfect. But they can still do stuff.

Well you kind of covered what they are good for....but you missed a few...
I won't go there....LOL!
I have two, both were given to me, because I was looking for an anvil for metalworking....
Both look like the surface of the moon, one has cuts across its face.

Yeah, you are correct about them being good for somethings....

Halberds · Post by **Halberds** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:38 pm

Thank you all for your design input.
This is the approval pics of what we came up with.

One slides the greaves over the rivet anvil and peens the rivets on the outside.
The rivet head rest on the small extended pedestal, and the rivet is peened on the outside of the metal splint.
I think copper roofing nails would be perfect.

This is the forming tool to shrink the ankle portion of the greaves.
These tools are designed to C-clamp on the work bench.
I recommend two C-clamps as shown.

For your approval Audax.

Hal

audax · Post by **audax** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:40 pm

Approved. YOu're a genius.

audax · Post by **audax** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:43 pm

Paypal sent.

Pitbull Armory · Post by **Pitbull Armory** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:25 pm

Nice Hal, Looking good there!.

Take care

PB

Halberds · Post by **Halberds** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:44 pm

Thanks PB, I love it when a plan comes together.

Audax, your tools shipped out today.
Thank you.

Hal

audax · Post by **audax** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 3:05 pm

Halberds wrote:Thanks PB, I love it when a plan comes together.

Audax, your tools shipped out today.
Thank you.

Hal

Fantastic. Thank you.

Halberds · Post by **Halberds** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:00 pm

Hummm... I just noticed you are the

Dark Overlord Chick of the Universe

So... does that make one of your minions now?

**Grovel grovel**

____________________
Happy Leather Pounding

audax · Post by **audax** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:27 pm

Halberds wrote:Hummm... I just noticed you are the

Dark Overlord Chick of the Universe

So... does that make one of your minions now?

**Grovel grovel**

____________________
Happy Leather Pounding

Thou art a Most Favored Minion.