Making a sturdy belt

kaiÃ¶ · Post by **kaiÃ¶** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:04 pm

The belt I use to hang my leg armor is no good no more. So I'm gonna cut a strip of really thick leather to replace it (the heavy armor grade leather stuff). Is there anything I can do to make it stronger?

Kilkenny · Post by **Kilkenny** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:13 pm

First, don't use the really heavy leather for a belt. It is not meant for that and you won't like the way it feels. It will bite and dig in in ways that are uncomfortable or worse.

The strength in leather is in the grain side. To make an extremely strong belt you want to make it what is called "Doubled and stitched".

This is where you cut two identical belt blanks, from no more than 4 oz leather (with grain, no suede splits for this), and then glue them flesh side to flesh side. When the glue has cured, stitch the leather together near the outer edges, going all the way around.

That will make the strongest leather belt you can get.

losthelm · Post by **losthelm** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:13 pm

Pickup some vegtan leather and water harden useing killkennys method.
takeing care of your leather armour can also help. Often leaveing the leather armour damp or deformed under the weight of the armour bag can shorten the life of your gear.

kaiÃ¶ · Post by **kaiÃ¶** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:20 pm

I was afraid I'd have to stitch... How do I know how many ounces a piece of leather is?

Losthelm - won't water hardening make it very hard to bend?

Ogedei · Post by **Ogedei** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:54 pm

Or....

If you are just going to build a regular belt...

Go to your local hardware store and get a tool belt. Not super pretty, but fairly wide, decently strong. I have no complaints about the one I picked up and am using.

What kind of legs are you using that you need the absolute strongest belt you can get?

Og.

Kilkenny · Post by **Kilkenny** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:00 pm

losthelm wrote:Pickup some vegtan leather and water harden useing killkennys method.
takeing care of your leather armour can also help. Often leaveing the leather armour damp or deformed under the weight of the armour bag can shorten the life of your gear.

Sorry, but a hardened belt is just not a good plan

Belts want to be supple and flex with the person.

kaiÃ¶ · Post by **kaiÃ¶** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:00 pm

I dont -need- the absolute strongest, but i figure if i'm gonna make something it might as well be the best i can get. I might just get a regular one tho, I'm just done piercing the holes in my gorget, it's really trying my patience, I can only imagine how much worse a whole belt will be.

forgot to mention, its plastic plates riveted to leather.

Kilkenny · Post by **Kilkenny** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:02 pm

kaiÃ¶ wrote:I was afraid I'd have to stitch... How do I know how many ounces a piece of leather is?

Losthelm - won't water hardening make it very hard to bend?

The "weight" of a given leather is the weight of a square foot of that leather.

There are conversion guides on the net that will show you how thick in inches/mm a given weight will be, roughly.

audax · Post by **audax** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:04 pm

kaiÃ¶ wrote:I was afraid I'd have to stitch... How do I know how many ounces a piece of leather is?

Losthelm - won't water hardening make it very hard to bend?

Just tell the people at the leather store you need some 4 ounce veg tan. After a while of working with leather you'll get an idea of thickness per ounce.

There is no sensible reason to harden a belt. Dunno where that came from.

ONe thing you might consider is making a c-belt. A c-belt has a sort of truncated cone shape narrower on top than on the bottom so that it hugs your hips rather than cutting into and pulling on your lower back.

kaiÃ¶ · Post by **kaiÃ¶** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:09 pm

C-belt eh... i will research this. Thanks

Iain (Bunny) Ruadh · Post by **Iain (Bunny) Ruadh** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:25 pm

Here's a quick 'cheat sheet' for mm thickness to 'oz' conversion. But like the others have said ... depending on what 'part' you are getting the there are fluctuation in thickness across the hide.

http://giovannisrawhides.com/Conversion.aspx

oh and p.s. .. I double the vote on the taking the lighter (4-6 oz) and doing the flesh to flesh with stitching (then oil/wax) to make a damn sturdy final product that flexes and holds .. be sure to use a good thread though ... it's often the weakest link of a good project.

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:09 pm

C belt is okay for lightweight legs. Its virtue is how it fits to the hips to bear a load.

For steel legs, have a look at the so-called "pourpoint" -- search the term onsite. It is like a long vest with large armholes, fitted snugly to waist and hips. It's sort of a combined belt and suspenders and is very comfortable.

And what method did you use to pierce the stitching holes in your gorget? Stab awls work better in unhardened leather.

kaiÃ¶ · Post by **kaiÃ¶** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:49 pm

Drill and really small bit. It's already hardened. I have a leather sewing needle and I'm gonna use that to make holes in the softer backing I will use.
If it's unhardened, I use one of these

http://www.tandyleatherfactory.com/home ... Product_18

Ogedei · Post by **Ogedei** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:34 pm

I use those punches for rivets, 4 or 5 holes tries my patience.

For sewing on leather I would recommend a stitching awl and leather needles.

I don't think using leather needles to pierce holes is a recommended use of them. The ones I am familiar with are dull, and designed to go through the hole made by the stitching awl.

I just did a new gorget for me, pushing the awl through 12oz leather was not a good time. But doable, and will look a million times better than using the rotary punch.

http://www.tandyleatherfactory.com/sear ... _11&kw=awl

http://www.tandyleatherfactory.com/sear ... 95-00.aspx

Saddle stitch
http://www.britishblades.com/forums/sho ... hp?t=19963

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:39 pm

Mmh, link's buggered. Doesn't take you to punches, though it should. If it's a thonging chisel you use, that's sorta good to start off with, though it would fail close inspection for medieval technique because of the thong shape of its holes rather than the slanting <> piercing of the oldfashioned stab awl.

I want to get a better quality stab awl than Tandy offers anyway: too soft and it dulls too quickly, like so many Tandy cutting tools.

Unhardened leather will be far more convenient to hole for stitches than your hardened gorget. (Did it harden up later, as Kilkenny said? Or was there any improvement to notice?)

No two ways around it: it takes a while to sew leather, particularly leather in belt weight. Something like 6-oz grain leather, flesh sides together, Barge cemented and sewn, will yield you a very macho belt you could hang a dagger or a small pistol from, and the thing would last you several decades, amounting to 12 ounce leather. Modern gun belts are assembled this way, though of course the stitch patterns used are distinctive to the modern era, not the medieval. I don't think those guys invented belts of that kind. Modern gun belts are thicker, though, being of two layers of 9-oz so they are really thick and stiff -- and bear up under the two pounds plus of many full-size pistols like a Colt .45 auto.

Stitching becomes a lot easier with the third hand that is a "stitching pony." It's a simple broad wooden clamp that holds your leather pieces so it's handy to pass the needle through the seam. There is also such a thing as a stitching horse, but this is a piece of furniture for sewing at and is like a short bench with a clampy thing at one end, with the leatherworker sitting astraddle.

Could you bless us with a pic of how your cuirbouilli gorget came out? Did you fix that carotid-pressure problem you were having?

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:53 pm

Stitching awl and its needle suits light- to medium-weight leathers. Hasn't quite the oomph for the heavy stuff, which takes stab-awling or drilling your way in. It's a good two-in-one tool -- poking and sewing -- as long as you understand just where it quits, and what you should select after that point.

I think Ogedei meant a stab awl.

kaiÃ¶ · Post by **kaiÃ¶** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:10 pm

Since I got the camera out, I'll take pics.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/42554641@N06/3921209839/

This is my punch and needles. I would never try to run the needles through 14 ounce leather, or even 4 ounches

It's for deerskin liner on the backside of my gorget. Im gonna pass the needle through the holes in the hardened piece and run it through the deerskin.

Konstantin - yes, somewhat. This is what happened. I cased it and let it sit for like 11 hours. I think that was too long because it wasn't as plastic as my first piece and didn't harden as much in the oven.
So what I did was I melted some wax and painted it on the piece, then put it in the oven until it melted in. Very happy with the results, minus the fire I started.

The pressure problem is fixed, I think. This piece certainly came out better than the first one. I would have this thing done by now if I could get the damn double cap rivets to work properly =/

In case you ask about the first piece, I just threw it out. It's been over a week and when I touch it my fingers get black. I think I over-saturated it with dye, at least on the flesh side.

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:54 pm

That's the good kind of rotary punch, anyway. Better suited for buckle and rivet holes in belts than for trying to make stitch holes. The removable punches have the annoying habit of going dull, though. I don't use mine as much as I do my Mini and Maxi Punch sets, which are driven with a mallet and get right through stuff. The black rubber cutting mat is a good backing for this tool.

Notice how there's always another flipping tool to buy in leatherworking? :roll:

Eventually, it does taper off...

kaiÃ¶ · Post by **kaiÃ¶** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:18 am

I did notice =/ What's worse the girl working at the Tandy shop is a bitch, the less I have to deal with her the better. I got a slicking wheel today tho, it was on special for like 2.50, couldn't NOT pick it up

Oskar der Drachen · Post by **Oskar der Drachen** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:34 am

kaiÃ¶ wrote:C-belt eh... i will research this. Thanks

Have a look over at Pitbull's site, he was offering really smart looking c-belts for good money. Belt, straps, buckles, all assembled and everything. It was a special for $40 at the time, but you would have to check back with him.

Theodulf · Post by **Theodulf** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:20 am

I use armour class leather for shield straps, nothing much else strap wise, but most of my armour is leather.

Kilkenny · Post by **Kilkenny** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:25 am

Konstantin the Red wrote:
No two ways around it: it takes a while to sew leather, particularly leather in belt weight. Something like 6-oz grain leather, flesh sides together, Barge cemented and sewn, will yield you a very macho belt you could hang a dagger or a small pistol from, and the thing would last you several decades, amounting to 12 ounce leather.

Actually, the doubled and stitched will be significantly stronger than a single layer of 12 oz. Otherwise it really would not be worth the trouble

And yes, despite doing a fair bit of it (way more than I would like - insert muttering about uncooperative machines here -) I find hand sewing leather to be a pain in the butt and tedious as all get out. With care the results can be really nice and amazingly sturdy. Better be for the time it takes :twisted: