Suggestions for Simple mitten gauntlets

[Croaker]

Hey guys I totally new to this hole thing so I thought I would just ask for some help or suggestions. I am planning on trying to make a pair of simple mitten gauntlets so that I can try fighting glave. I am making them out of a standard plastic barrel. I pulled the patterns of the archive and am using a number of different photos as reference. So here are my question before I go forward.

What is the best tool for the job in terms of cutting the barrel to shape? I have a really good heat gun for shaping the plastic but nothing for cutting.

What should I use to hold the gauntlets together? Rivits might be above me right now but chicago screws or nylon rope I'm not sure.

And any other suggesstions or easy patterns that you could point me in the direction would be great! Thanks.

-Croaker

[Sean Powell]

The best tool for cutting barrels IMHO is a jig-saw. Once the barrel is 'butchered' a band-saw or scroll saw can be used for more fine work.

I have had better experience molding plastic in the oven and using a form then by using a heat-gun.

The SCA has a long experience with bulky plastic shells over hockey gloves. While they are cheap and somewhat effective they are ugly and blatantly non-historical. How much of that affects your decisions is up to you.

If you look at the plastic gauntlets that are being sold (EGG comes to mind) you will find that they are frequently riveted to a pair of straps for articulation similar to a spaulder. This is probably the least problimatic of the assembly methods although you may want to be careful about not dislocating your thumb.

All things said and done, if you fight great weapon frequently, your gauntlets will be the 2nd piece of armor you upgrade, right after your helm... not having swolen fingers for a week after every tourney has it's advantages.

Sean

[InsaneIrish]

Are you going to try and make these for use at SCA events?

If so, don't. You will be far better served by going a different route.

[losthelm]

Developing a pattern and making good gauntlets is a very advanced project. Due mostly to the thumb and articulaiton of the fingers.
The thickness of the material makes it a bit more dificult.
As for the best tool for cutting barrels I use my jigsaw with a wood cutting bit slightly modified by sharpening the blade point to pierce the barrel.
A hand drill with good bits works well at makeing holes.
Straping can be dificult usualy it helps to have small fingers.

EGG, Pitbull, and Dark Victory make plastic gauntlets.
I would sugest asking Pitbull for help.

Demi gauntlets are a lot easier to make. It may be easier to make half dozen and sell them to purchase full gauntlets.

[Sean Powell]

Croaker.

I just noticed your location. I work in WestChester PA and live out in Coatesville. I might be able to give you some hands-on help or access to my shop. Drop me a PM or an e-mail. Also, get in touch with Tallan Gwylt who is the Knights Marshal for Hartshorne-Dale. Mostly he will get you back in touch with me for armor construction advice but he is much more active locally then I have the time to be.

Sean

[Croaker]

Sean - Thanks for the great advice. I got involved with the SCA through a friend who set me up with a pretty aweful but functional cest and legs. I am getting arms and demis from horsefriend and a helm from otto. I plan on mostly fighting sword and sheild so i didn't spring for full gauntlets plus cash is a little tight. But I've been trying glave and having to use loner gauntlets, so I have access to barrels so I'm gonna try it myself. Hopefully building a new chest and legs. I know its blatantly non-historical but at this time I can't afford a real kit.

I gonna pick up a jigsaw this weekend and make an attempt at putting something together, don't think it will work but I'm just gonna give it a try. I will keep you posted and if you don't mind ask you some more specific question after I give it a go.

InsaneIrish- Why shouldn't I use them for SCA?

losthelm- Thanks for the advice. What makes the thumbs so difficult? Any suggestions?

Sean thanks again for the offer i'm gonna try it and I'll be in touch.

Taylor / Croaker

[Konstantin the Red]

What Irish says is building full articulated gaunts isn't for first-timers. Trying to get a gaunt that both protects in any position as you grip a hilt or a haft and moves with your fingers takes experience, and without that, your picklebarrel materials aren't likely to give you the results you need. Steel stays a lot closer to your delicate fingerbones, and this works better. Thin materials articulate more smoothly too.

This is an awfully hard job to do well enough to pass with the Marshallate, particularly with suboptimal materials.

But making goodlooking half gaunts of covered barrel plastic for use with basket hilts to raise some bucks, or for barter, towards the mitten gaunts you'd need may be more viable. Consider getting your mitts from Horsefriend instead of the demis, and building your own demis. The cuff and metacarpal of a gauntlet are the easy parts.

Are there any local garage armourers in your SCA shire?

Heat guns are a localized-heating device. Plastic is an insulator; heat won't flow through it well. A heat gun could make shaping of small local parts of a piece possible, but it's not very good at reshaping an entire piece because of the varying temperature.

Gaunt thumbs are funny because the thumb armor isn't anchored down at the wristbones where the thumb actually springs from. It's a swiveling hinge attached about halfway up the thumb's metacarpal. The hinge not only hinges, but also swivels on loose rivets. The tip of the thumb should be covered over so a freak shot can't peel your thumbnail back. You may only get this digit's armor to ground on the hilt on one side -- the medial side of the thumb. That should be enough.

[InsaneIrish]

This is an awfully hard job to do well enough to pass with the Marshallate, particularly with suboptimal materials.

Basically what Konstantin said, but specifically the quote above.

1 of 2 things is likely to happen if you try and make full gauntlets out of pickle barrel as your first armouring project.

1. you will end up with some that is so huge and bulky that they don't work well for what you want. And look like cold ass served in a cardboard box.

2. they will be substandard some way and will get bounced by the marshallete.

There are 2 things I always say never skimp on. 1 Gauntlets, 2 helmets.

Those are both items that if get injured can really mess up your life.

[Swete]

Making hidden HDPE plastic (carwash barrel ect) cuirasses and various splinted parts insn't really that hard at all.
But yeah, the gaunt thing seems quite challenging. I purchased some of Pitbull's HDPE gaunts a while back, and while they are a little bulky, and don't have much room for hand flexiblity, they protect far better than any steel gauntlets I have ever worn. So HDPE does make for safe gaunts, if built right. Not pretty, but safe. (pluse HDPE won't crack like Kydex will).
The lack of articulateness stems mostly from the solid thumb. and stiff style of strapping that Pitbull uses across the back of the upper hand.
However, if you are dead set on making some gaunts out of HDPE, either contact Pitbull and get some advice from him, or you can just try to copy Egg's or Pitbull's patterns as closely as possible using pics found here on the archive or their sites.
Good luck with whatever you decide upon!

[Pitbull Armory]

Hi there, Thanks for the plug Swete, Yes those plastic mittens I make have very little mobility in the hand area, The wrist moves around fine but I built them for holding a weapon and thats it. They open just barely enough to get the weapon in your hand, and the almost solid thumb seemed like a good idea to me. If anyone wants the patterns for the plastic mittens just PM me and for a small fee Ill go trace them and mail them to you.

Thank you

Pitbull

[Yamamoto]

OK i thought id chime in.

I have made 2 gauntlets out of plastic barrel.

I used the gauntlet pattern here and then used the wisby gauntlet for the thumbs.

Ok my first attempt. BTW this was the FIRST project i made. OK first attempt. The passed Marshall's inspection easily. BUt after fighting i learned there needed to be a lame on the bottom of the wrist. The bruises proved.

Ok the attachments and on to the gauntlets.

1) learn from my mistake. take your measurements around a padded glove. I used a leather glove and there was no room for padding afterwards. Pad the glove first.

2) you will notice in the pictures that they are held together by bailing wire. This was just temporary so i got the sizing and holes aligned. This seemed to work both times.

3) I used 550 Paracord for the lacing to attach the lames. This allowed for lots of articulation and movement. You will have to play with the lacing and even add some stopper knots to prevent them from opening too much. not to hard. just a puzzle.

4) on the bottom of the wrist you will notice there is no lame. i added one there in the end. was real easy to do after wards.

5) rivet the wrist ring together first. then work your way our to the ends from there. that was much easier then the backwards way i did the first time. once this was riveted together i trimmed it so it would stand on a desk straight up. the original pattern in the database was not straight.

6) ROLL YOUR EDGES !!! this is easy. basically melt the edge of the plastic to where it just about catches on fire. blow it out. let it cool. bucket of cold water is your friend and use leather gloves for protection.

for this i used the following tools.

jigsaw.
wire cutters.
sheet metal snipers.
blow torch (for shaping and rolling the edges
dremmel for minor cuts. a band saw could also be used.
drill with a drill bit for the lacing and rivets.

rivet set
anvil
hammer.

[Yamamoto]

and the semi finished version.

This version still is not showing the missing bottom lame.
i will try and get a pic of that for you.

[Swete]

FREAKING NICE. Way better than my first armour project.
Can we get a pic of you wearing them? I wanna see the sizing ratio...
So, do you have a pretty full range of motion with them? Does it smart when you get smacked across the back of the hand or do the lames protect pretty well?

[Yamamoto]

I will get some more pics taken of these when i get home. I am at work right now.

Another note.

I did articulate the thumb after these pics. was not too hard after doing this. Just cut the existing thumb off and make two thumb lames as per the wisby gantlet. dish them. drill them. lace them.

for the inside lacing (the ones that keep you in your gloves) i switched some of the leather to paracord. it just held better when fighting. it was thinner.


I am making another pair of these for a friend of mine.
We padded the gloves first
should make a huge difference.


and i am making a pair of demi gauntlets. as those are just three lames. easy as apple pie.

[Croaker]

Thanks for all the advise and pictures I think I am gonna go for it. I will post pictures on how it works out either way when I get the time, hopefully I will have a go of it this weekend. But I may get busy. But really all of you help is awesome really makes a newbie feel welcome!

[Yamamoto]

Forgot to mention something of very importance.


When figuring out how much you need
IE pattern.

Be sure to use your weapon to help with this.
you want the top of the gauntlet. and the bottom of the gauntlet to make contact with your weapon or just about. millimiters away.

when your hand is struck it will transfer the force of the blow to the weapon.

i only wear a leather mechanics glove under mine and they work awesome.

so be sure to use a piece of rattan to guide you through this.

[Witchfinder]

Eric Dube has done some cracking videos on making gauntlets.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1jF2MA4UrU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ePMUUvGkBM

Not much use if you're making your out of plastic, but may be of some use for judging overall form and function.