Almost finished helm

jamesn_13 · Post by **jamesn_13** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:23 pm

This is my 3rd attempt at a helm. It is a modified pattern by Alan Bauldree. I plan on using it for SCA combat. The cross on the front was added to compensate for my stupidity when I built the helm and had an eye opening over 1 inch. I plan on making a few more great helm, but they will be of my own pattern. Please don't be to harsh in your criticism. I still need to decide on a breath hole pattern before i give it the final treatment with the green sos pad.

[img]http://home.armourarchive.org/members/jamesn13/Image0133.jpg[/img]
[img]http://home.armourarchive.org/members/jamesn13/Image0134.jpg[/img]
[img]http://home.armourarchive.org/members/jamesn13/Image0135.jpg[/img]

BTW this helm is dedicated to Mad Matt because he took the time 7 years ago when I was 16 to teach me how to make some armour. I still remember what he said to me while I planish and dish things.

Tomburr · Post by **Tomburr** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:45 pm

Damn. That thing looks hateful. What guage did you use?

jamesn_13 · Post by **jamesn_13** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:06 am

Tomburr wrote:Damn. That thing looks hateful. What guage did you use?

The whole thing is 14 gauge cold rolled steel.

Halberds · Post by **Halberds** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:57 am

It does have a mean look to it.
Jolly well done.

Thanks for sharing.

Hal

Cadfael_Mynnydd · Post by **Cadfael_Mynnydd** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:01 am

BREATHES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :evil:

you needs them.

but it does look badass

schreiber · Post by **schreiber** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:28 am

Yes, it does look like you've learned quite a bit from the other two.
I would add some advice, though.

You've probably figured out the nose problem. We get hit in the front a lot, especially in war (spears), and I believe great helms suffer from a fundamental problem of not being that great for protecting the nose. With an eyeslot, you want the steel to be as close to your eyes as possible, because that 7/8" slot offers more visibility the closer it is to your eyes.

But the closer that slot is to your eyes, the closer your nose is to the bottom plate. You have your faceplate kicked out far enough to accommodate your nose, but I'm thinking that's how you created the problem of more than 1" space on the eyeslot (I've done exactly that before).

I think this is why the earlier period helms with the dished faceplate are getting to be more popular. 14th c Great helms are funny that way - the earlier ones seem to have left some nose room, and a look at visored bascinets, armets, and sallets shows that the armorers understood that there were sticky-outy tender bits to account for.

Are you sticking with the great helm because you really like great helms? You obviously have welding tech, so that opens up a whole lot of other possibilities.

There's a lot of good to say about this helm, though. Your rivet spacing looks good, and you didn't smash any heads! Plus, I really like how you put the cross on to salvage it: I tend to get frustrated when stuff like that happens and junk the whole thing. I wish I had that kind of follow-through all the time... when I finish something I'm not happy with I end up learning a lot of things I didn't anticipate.

jamesn_13 · Post by **jamesn_13** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:10 am

Cadfael_Mynnydd wrote:BREATHES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you needs them.

but it does look badass

I haven't decided on my pattern for breaths yet.

schreiber wrote:Yes, it does look like you've learned quite a bit from the other two.
I would add some advice, though.

Are you sticking with the great helm because you really like great helms? You obviously have welding tech, so that opens up a whole lot of other possibilities.

I really like great helms, and have a few sheets of 14 gauge to go through and practice. Some of my friends also want me to make them great helms. I plan on making a few bascinets in the near future but I don't have any 12 gauge steel yet and money is tight.

Effingham · Post by **Effingham** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:46 am

Okay, guys.

Breathe (with the final E) is a verb. It means to suck in air and force it back out.

Breath (without the final E) is a noun. A breath (/breth/) is what you breathe (/breedh/).

Related concept: Bath vs. bathe.

Let's try to keep that straight.

Cadfael_Mynnydd · Post by **Cadfael_Mynnydd** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:11 pm

.... sorry mister Effingham... :oops:

(leaves an apple on the desk)
I meant the holes thet let out hot nasty breath and let in good fresh air.

schreiber · Post by **schreiber** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:26 pm

jamesn_13 wrote:I really like great helms, and have a few sheets of 14 gauge to go through and practice. Some of my friends also want me to make them great helms. I plan on making a few bascinets in the near future but I don't have any 12 gauge steel yet and money is tight.

Oh, don't underrate 14g for helms. In some areas, if you make a 14g bascinet you're making a helm with a short lifespan. But there are options.

Don't avoid the 4-panel spangen. Much fun is to be had in that venue, and if you put an overlapping joint on the sweet spots instead of front/back/sides, then you have 2 layers of 14 gauge where you're most likely to get hit!

I made this helm last summer, and you can see that I did that with the sweet spots... scroll all the way down for good pics.
http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/ ... blackening

Edit: I forgot that the owner talked me out of using 16g in some spots. I wanted to do the front panels with 16g to cut down on weight - there was no reason to use 14 there, since there's only about 2" in the front/back which doesn't have overlap.. Bear in mind we live in Atlantia.

Also, that brim is 14g but with 3/8" of the brim folded under. As the person who folded it, I can tell you that no mortal man is going to bend that brim with rattan, and it's the part of the helm most likely to get hit.

jamesn_13 · Post by **jamesn_13** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:47 pm

schreiber wrote:Don't avoid the 4-panel spangen. Much fun is to be had in that venue, and if you put an overlapping joint on the sweet spots instead of front/back/sides, then you have 2 layers of 14 gauge where you're most likely to get hit!

I do plan on making a spangen in the near future, I even have the pieces cut out. I've been planning on making one after seeing all the nice ones Halberds keeps making. I guess I will try a bascinet out of 14 gauge, at least to practice making one. There's so many helms i want to make but haven't got time

Effingham · Post by **Effingham** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:21 pm

Cadfael_Mynnydd wrote:.... sorry mister Effingham...
(leaves an apple on the desk)
I meant the holes thet let out hot nasty breath and let in good fresh air.

Those would be breaths.

Effingham

sha-ul · Post by **sha-ul** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:05 pm

Effingham wrote:
Cadfael_Mynnydd wrote:.... sorry mister Effingham...
(leaves an apple on the desk)
I meant the holes thet let out hot nasty breath and let in good fresh air.

Those would be breaths.

Effingham

wouldn't those be called "vents" :wink:

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:02 pm

They might, sha-ul.

After all, it's the ventail plate they are in.

[/guest lecturer]

Armourkris · Post by **Armourkris** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:09 am

That helm looks angry. I like it.
Whatever pattern you go with I vote you do a bit of file work and make the breaths rectangles.

sha-ul · Post by **sha-ul** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:04 pm

Konstantin the Red wrote:They might, sha-ul.

After all, it's the ventail plate they are in.

[/guest lecturer]

I cannot say with accuracy in period terms, but if you were an engineer describing them today is there a word to describe them any better than vents?

eta.
link

etymonline.com wrote:vent (v.) Look up vent at Dictionary.com
late 14c., "emit from a confined space," probably aphetic of O.Fr. eventer "let out, expose to air," from V.L. *exventare, from L. ex- "out" + ventus "wind" (see wind (n.)). Sense of "express freely" first recorded 1590s. The noun meaning "hole, opening, outlet" is first recorded 1560s. Meaning "action of venting" is recorded from 1550s. Sense of "divulge, publish" (1590s) is behind phrase vent one's spleen (see spleen).