New guy's first SCA armor ideas

[Patrick]

This is just for fun, but I'm interested in everyone's ideas.

Hypothetical situation: you are going to open your shop up one night a week and help the three or four new guys who want to make armor.

If you get to pick what they make, what would you have them do?

Basic concepts:
1- has to be the full suit, no fair saying buy all the metal bits
2- has to result in an SCA legal suit
3- has to be something you would not be embarassed to have come from your shop
4- your goal is getting folks armored fairly fast, so no fancy stuff
5- give a basic idea of cost for the kit as well

I'll post my ideas separately.

-Patrick

[Morejello]

I would do Sir Bartolomew's "fast easy norman loaner gear" method.

Essentially he uses plastic lamellar for the body armour over a padded gambeson, a cheap norman conical helmet, plastic splint cuisses with leather knees (covered by pants), leather elbows, and a leather dog collar gorget with a tab in the front and back to cover throat/spine, with a little metal reinforcement. Covered vambraces optional.

I believe he said the 3 loaner kits he built for himself each cost less than 250, and look awesome.

I'll see if I can dig up a link to the article he wrote. He may have taken it offline because IIRC it is to be included in the next edition of the Known World Handbook.

[Patrick]

My basic beginner kit idea:

-Helm: basic 3 piece pot helm. These are simple as anything and can still look pretty cool.
-gorget: simple collar type with either aluminum or steel riveted to leather and a buckle to close.
-Body: Coat of plates with roadsign plates on a canvas backing. Buckles on the sides
-Arms: simple spaulders on the shoulders, darted elbows, gutter vambraces
-Hands: demi-gauntlet, one-piece cup hilt, box grip for the shield
-Legs: articulated knees, metal cuisses

Cost: Steel about $35, jigsaw blades about $10, fabric about $10, leather straps and buckles about $15, roadsign from scrapyard (paying scrap prices) $5.

So, a total estimated about $75 to armor the new guy, basic armor that will look decent and get him out there in not too much time. I'm thinking a couple of months as he transitions out of the loaner gear.

Order of operations

I'd do the hand protection first so he can have his own sword and shield. It is also simple stuff to make and if he drops out I haven't invested a lot of time and materials at this point.

Gorget is next. Every fighter really ought to have his own as soon as possible.

Legs third, even though they are complicated to make. It just takes a lot less time to swap loaner gear around if the guys borrowing it are already wearing their own legs.

Body next. It is a big project and there will be a feeling of accomplishment that will help boost the ego to finishing up the suit.

Arms won't take very long to make and take a lot longer to trade around than a helm.

If he has not already purchased a helm by this point, then the pot helm is the final project. If he's really gung-ho he'll have ordered at least an Ashcraft Baker helm by this point. Unless making the armor is part of the point for him (like it is for me). In which case, the helm ought to be fairly quick to make with the skills he now has.

So, what's your concept?

-Patrick

[bryanrobbins]

umm where are u getting the steel? $35 gets me about 18 sqft of metal. 35 bucks will get u a full steel suit in my book

[Odd]

Think the better question is where you are getting your metal. Around here, you can't even get drops for 1.95/foot.

[Konstantin the Red]

This is just for fun, but I'm interested in everyone's ideas. . .

Basic concepts:
1- has to be the full suit, no fair saying buy all the metal bits
2- has to result in an SCA legal suit
3- has to be something you would not be embarassed to have come from your shop
4- your goal is getting folks armored fairly fast, so no fancy stuff
5- give a basic idea of cost for the kit as well

1 -- garage-shop barrel helm, any pattern, 5-pc., 4-pc., 3-pc. To some degree which one you pick depends on your cutting equipment, as the 3-piece goes swiftest with a powerful bench shear or 14ga-capable power shear.

2 -- plastic reinforces in or under gambeson, full-circle kidney belt being the minimum. But consider vambrace splits in the sleeves and a hard point for each shoulder, and an array of lames up the entire spine not already covered by the kidney belt. Gorget, of course, and from the beginning -- cut out and built with the helm, all in one step with it. Any type the wearer is comfortable in should do. The guys that are hard to fit for gorget protection are usually two sorts: those who have a problem with anything close about their throats, and those built with no neck who are going to need something constructed somewhat like two intersecting cones with the ends flaring top and bottom. Sheet metal, heavy leather, or brigandine style.

3 -- the gambeson, hence, should be cut with some medieval style to it: "constructed in quarters" is good from late fourteenth through all the fifteenth. Gives the fighters the thing so many kits lack: a waist. That one element will keep up the style of the thing. This sort of thing is an update on the ideas in "Equipping the SCA Man At Arms" in BoTH vol 3.

4 -- Obliquely: Some guys are inevitably going to want mail and will go with butted mail to start with -- let's regard riveted as definitely in the "fancy stuff" column. THEY should make it, then, though the shop may help by making mandrels, an electric drill, and a handsfree wire feed method for speedy and quite safe powerwinding of mail coils from galvanized wire. Tell the new guys that 14ga (.080") wire around a 3/8" mandrel is effective and adequate and assembles pretty quick into a mail piece, but that 16ga (.063") wire around 1/4" will look more medieval. Either size is SCA-habitual. (An awful lot of nonfighter maillers out there think it's SCA-regulated. The idea is a zombie that will not die.) Cutting links -- well, offering mini bolt cutters wouldn't be too wrong. But it depends on the newbie guy: will he spring for ten bucks, or less, to get his own? Nice thing about winding and cutting mail links is the task is simple and mess-ups are usually not bloody if the just-larnin' shop chimp is using hands-free feed of his wire -- I completely unrecommend and disparage feeding the wire through a gloved hand when you're powerwinding. A handsfree wire feed is the work of five minutes to build of scrap lumber and eyescrews, and all the accumulation of potential energy in the wire coil is generated far away from living flesh.

[Ingelri]

I could put someone into full 14th century armour without a lot of work and with minimal expense.

Helmet - Bascinets are easy once you've done enough of them.

Gorget - I love brigandine gorgets for new folks. Most people can come up with enough leather for cheap. Use street sign or 18g mild steel inside. If the leather is heavy enough, no metal needed.

Body armour - Coat of plates all the way. Get a side of oil tanned leather for around $50-60 and put 18g inside for authenticity. For cheap, use street sign aluminum or plastic barrel plates. Even cheaper than leather hit the clearance bin at your local upolstery fabric place.

Arms - Sectional arm on leather points. Use street sign for the vambrace.

Legs - Articulated knees and covered cuisses, or gambose legs.

Hands - Wisby half-gaunts

Shield - $18 1/4" birch plywood at Lowes gets you two laminated heaters

I could probably put someone into a full, period 14th century rig for less than $100 if they do the work.

[Sean Powell]

This is just for fun, but I'm interested in everyone's ideas.

Hypothetical situation: you are going to open your shop up one night a week and help the three or four new guys who want to make armor.

If you get to pick what they make, what would you have them do?

Basic concepts:
1- has to be the full suit, no fair saying buy all the metal bits
2- has to result in an SCA legal suit
3- has to be something you would not be embarassed to have come from your shop
4- your goal is getting folks armored fairly fast, so no fancy stuff
5- give a basic idea of cost for the kit as well

I'll post my ideas separately.

-Patrick

Pembridge great helm (working on a new pattern right now)
Aluminum or barrel plastic Wisby I CoP
Elbows and knees from RFTH or Stonekeep.
Leather vambraces, possible aluminum or plastic splints inside.
Leather (or fabric) cuisses with plastic splints inside.
Hardened leather gorget and half-gauntlet.
curved plywood shield
Purchased basket hilt, rattan and maybe shield basket (or hockey glove painted black or brown)

Helm is 1/8 of a sheet of 14ga, maybe $20-$25?
Barrel is free. Fabric is 3 yards at $8/yard (get the good stuff) plus some buckles, straps and roofing nails.
Leather I have no idea on, been too long but $5/sq-ft?
Plywwod, $10 sheet of Luan will get 3 24x32" heaters and then $10 in aluminum edging if desired.

Double that cost for the things I missed like rope for the edging, ductape, helmet padding etc...

The key to it looking good is spending your time to do a good job on sizing, proportion and finish. Copper nails for rivets don't break the bank over galvanized but they aren't necessary. Fabric in 2 layers with finished and top-stitched edges. Fake quilting on the cuises (unless the newbie has a high pain tollerance and wants to go with just quilted)

Total image should be a plausible for late 13th/early 14th cent.

Sean

[Patrick]

As to my estimate on steel, it is based on the last time I bought 14 and 16 gauge steel at Greer Tank and Welding in Fairbanks, Alaska. Part of the cost is getting it up here. The price is what I figure would be used from each sheet, not what it would cost to get a whole sheet.

Last time I bought steel, it was around $65 for a sheet of 14 gauge and $40-something for 16. I'm estimating a little high with $35 for knees, elbows and helm because I assume some screw-ups. My shop always has screw-ups. Some people might assume the biggest one is the owner of the shop!

Please understand I am simply ballparking the prices for materials, not giving a solid price. That's all I'm looking for from others as well. This is only meant to be for fun.

Some really good stuff here already! I'd totally forgotten to factor in the shield cost. Oops!

-Patrick

Edited to add comments about shield and about shop screw-ups.

[Halbrust]

I'll play from the other side of the fence. I am the new guy making armor in the shop of another.

One 2ft by 4ft piece of 16g steel was around $14.

I first pounded out single piece knee cops, then single piece elbow cops, then a shield boss.
I will be making splinted vambraces and a brigandine gorget with the same steel.
I'm making garden hose cuisses from some upholstery fabric I got at JoAnns for cheap.
Still not sure on body protection. Probably a CoP-Brig conglomeration out of plastic. ( I fail the test of this thread here, but I'll continue)
I'm aiming high on the helmet and am attempting to make a Rus black grave helmet. I am refining the pattern now.

Total cost will be well under $100. But easily 100+ hours of work. (I fail there too, because it'll be legal, pretty, cheap, but not fast)

[Eltz-Kempenich]

Basic starter kit (unless you're my friend, in which case I'll make you make your own nice kit; no friend of mine will authorize in anything less than an 80% period kit while I can help it!)

helm: bascinet or spangen
body: CoP w/ spaulders
elbows/knees: two-piece welded simple knees/elbows and basic padded cuisses; soupcans if you want to get fancy
gambeson: get a moving blanket, cut it into a vest.
gorget - simple dog collar
gauntlets - go buy used hockey gloves. If you get the rest of this done and you haven't quit yet, THEN we'll worry about gauntlets.