The Armour Archive

Hi, The order im building now is the Breath Stealer Helm. Heres how its going so far in the third pic down, the rest of the pics are what the buyer sent me to go off, I need to find the right set of horns for it still.

Happy New Year

Pitbull

less

Did you make the completed one or is that what you are basing yours off?

Hi Wulfgar, Thanks for the question, I should have clarified that the finished one is the one im using as a reference to reproduce.

Take care

Pb

wow so want one of those

Oh holy crap PB that is freaking fantastic

Very cool!!

Pitbull Armory wrote:Hi Wulfgar, Thanks for the question, I should have clarified that the finished one is the one im using as a reference to reproduce.

That is a gorgeous helmet
But
If this is not the helmet you have made, and if yours is not at a late stage of construction,
May I recomend that you look at the original art again and see if it is plausible to construct this with an articulated back and a visor that opens.
The customer will likely be far happier with these changes.

Norman wrote:That is a gorgeous helmet
But
If this is not the helmet you have made, and if yours is not at a late stage of construction,
May I recomend that you look at the original art again and see if it is plausible to construct this with an articulated back and a visor that opens.
The customer will likely be far happier with these changes.

just out of curiosity; why would someone who wanted a reproduction of the death dealer helmet want those features? neither are evident in frazetta's art. seems rather random... kind of like doing an articulated back and visor for a greek corinthian basically...

I don't think those are actual horns. The curve it wrong. I am willing to bet those are fake, molded, probably in latex or fiberglass.

If you want something that kinda looks like those in shape, look at Bull Horns, but they won't curve in as far as those do.

les yeich wrote:

Norman wrote:That is a gorgeous helmet
But
If this is not the helmet you have made, and if yours is not at a late stage of construction,
May I recomend that you look at the original art again and see if it is plausible to construct this with an articulated back and a visor that opens.
The customer will likely be far happier with these changes.

just out of curiosity; why would someone who wanted a reproduction of the death dealer helmet want those features? neither are evident in frazetta's art. seems rather random... kind of like doing an articulated back and visor for a greek corinthian basically...

Thats why I said "look at the original art and see if it is plausible."
I do not remember the details of the Frazetta drawing.
But looking at he reproduction, my immediate thought was that the wearer may have a problem with lifting his head with that back plate ...and a lifting visor is always more comfy than one that's solid.

Norman wrote:

les yeich wrote:

Norman wrote:That is a gorgeous helmet
But
If this is not the helmet you have made, and if yours is not at a late stage of construction,
May I recomend that you look at the original art again and see if it is plausible to construct this with an articulated back and a visor that opens.
The customer will likely be far happier with these changes.

just out of curiosity; why would someone who wanted a reproduction of the death dealer helmet want those features? neither are evident in frazetta's art. seems rather random... kind of like doing an articulated back and visor for a greek corinthian basically...

Thats why I said "look at the original art and see if it is plausible."
I do not remember the details of the Frazetta drawing.
But looking at he reproduction, my immediate thought was that the wearer may have a problem with lifting his head with that back plate ...and a lifting visor is always more comfy than one that's solid.

POSTSCRIPTUM
I found this painting that shows the back plate:
http://therealmtoys.com/wordpressorg/wp ... ealerv.jpg
It is most definitely articulated

On this one, on the other hand, the backplate is quite substantialy flared so as not to require articulation.
http://animewallpapers.lt/albums/FEDORO ... n4-lg.jpeg

Norman wrote:

Norman wrote:

les yeich wrote:

Norman wrote:That is a gorgeous helmet
But
If this is not the helmet you have made, and if yours is not at a late stage of construction,
May I recomend that you look at the original art again and see if it is plausible to construct this with an articulated back and a visor that opens.
The customer will likely be far happier with these changes.

just out of curiosity; why would someone who wanted a reproduction of the death dealer helmet want those features? neither are evident in frazetta's art. seems rather random... kind of like doing an articulated back and visor for a greek corinthian basically...

Thats why I said "look at the original art and see if it is plausible."
I do not remember the details of the Frazetta drawing.
But looking at he reproduction, my immediate thought was that the wearer may have a problem with lifting his head with that back plate ...and a lifting visor is always more comfy than one that's solid.

POSTSCRIPTUM
I found this painting that shows the back plate:
http://therealmtoys.com/wordpressorg/wp ... ealerv.jpg
It is most definitely articulated

In all of the paintings online, the face is always in heavy shadow -- so there is a fair amount of room for interpretation, though it is more likely not a liftable visor.

No, it's not.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGRQS1HWOYs

Very interesting interpretation.
I look at that pic and see no articulation at all.

Angus Oneail (EK) can make the horns out of resin for you.

i was beaten to the punch; i don't see articulation in any of the death dealer art although obviously this is open to individual interpretation. i definitely see odd lines but i don't interpret it as articulation, just plating/ gilding/ whatever it was frazetta was going for... artistic rather than functional embellishment.

i'm not saying it's a bad idea, though. i can actually see the articulated back being a cool touch, because it kind of "quantifies" frazetta's somewhat vague details.

MJBlazek wrote:Very interesting interpretation.
I look at that pic and see no articulation at all.

Don't know whether you zoomed in.
See attachment.
The helmet bowl most likely reaches just to the bottom of the ear.
There is a separate plate underlapped to that.

les yeich wrote:i was beaten to the punch; i don't see articulation in any of the death dealer art although obviously this is open to individual interpretation. i definitely see odd lines but i don't interpret it as articulation, just plating/ gilding/ whatever it was frazetta was going for... artistic rather than functional embellishment.

i'm not saying it's a bad idea, though. i can actually see the articulated back being a cool touch, because it kind of "quantifies" frazetta's somewhat vague details.

Frazetta's details are anything but vague. And while the helmet was never identical to any other painting, certain aspects held true throgought. Now, you wanna throw SImon Bisby's art in there, you get some more weirdness, but that depends on if you are going for the Comic Book version or the Frazetta original.

Since Frank himself worked on the sculpting and detailing of both the miniature I posted, and the full size, 600 lb statue in the video, I think it's safe to say they are pretty much dead on realizations of his 2D art in 3D.. and make it extremely clear the helmet had neither an articulated back, nor a lifting visor.

if you want to make one with those, by all means, f'ngonuts.. but don't call it "death Dealer" because it's not. It's a completely different helmet that has horns on it.

Norman wrote:

MJBlazek wrote:Very interesting interpretation.
I look at that pic and see no articulation at all.

Don't know whether you zoomed in.
See attachment.
The helmet bowl most likely reaches just to the bottom of the ear.
There is a separate plate underlapped to that.

No I zoomed in.
still don't see it as articulation.
I either see it as the continuation of the overlapping face plate, or even as just a line of rivets that could be holding in anything... a liner perhaps.
There could be a nother plate riveted to it. But that doesn't mean it is articulated.

Jesus Christ Maeryk. You are trolling the Armour board now? Go back to Off topics.

Maeryk wrote:

les yeich wrote:i was beaten to the punch; i don't see articulation in any of the death dealer art although obviously this is open to individual interpretation. i definitely see odd lines but i don't interpret it as articulation, just plating/ gilding/ whatever it was frazetta was going for... artistic rather than functional embellishment.

i'm not saying it's a bad idea, though. i can actually see the articulated back being a cool touch, because it kind of "quantifies" frazetta's somewhat vague details.

Frazetta's details are anything but vague. And while the helmet was never identical to any other painting, certain aspects held true throgought. Now, you wanna throw SImon Bisby's art in there, you get some more weirdness, but that depends on if you are going for the Comic Book version or the Frazetta original.

Since Frank himself worked on the sculpting and detailing of both the miniature I posted, and the full size, 600 lb statue in the video, I think it's safe to say they are pretty much dead on realizations of his 2D art in 3D.. and make it extremely clear the helmet had neither an articulated back, nor a lifting visor.

if you want to make one with those, by all means, f'ngonuts.. but don't call it "death Dealer" because it's not. It's a completely different helmet that has horns on it.

Maeryk wrote:Frazetta's details are anything but vague. And while the helmet was never identical to any other painting, certain aspects held true throgought...
Since Frank himself worked on the sculpting and detailing of both the miniature I posted, and the full size, 600 lb statue in the video, I think it's safe to say they are pretty much dead on realizations of his 2D art in 3D.. and make it extremely clear the helmet had neither an articulated back, nor a lifting visor.

You are obviously far more expert on the question than I.
My initial reaction was to the helmet reproduction at the top of the page.
But I must observe that this:
http://therealmtoys.com/wordpressorg/wp ... ealerv.jpg
has a very different backplate from this:
http://animewallpapers.lt/albums/FEDORO ... n4-lg.jpeg
and it seems that both are different from the statue you posted.
And - all three backplates differ from the helmet reproduction at the top of this conversation - with all three Frazetta backplates being (looks to me) more functional than the one at the top of the page.
No?

Broadway wrote:Jesus Christ Maeryk. You are trolling the Armour board now? Go back to Off topics.

Maeryk wrote:

les yeich wrote:i was beaten to the punch; i don't see articulation in any of the death dealer art although obviously this is open to individual interpretation. i definitely see odd lines but i don't interpret it as articulation, just plating/ gilding/ whatever it was frazetta was going for... artistic rather than functional embellishment.

i'm not saying it's a bad idea, though. i can actually see the articulated back being a cool touch, because it kind of "quantifies" frazetta's somewhat vague details.

Frazetta's details are anything but vague. And while the helmet was never identical to any other painting, certain aspects held true throgought. Now, you wanna throw SImon Bisby's art in there, you get some more weirdness, but that depends on if you are going for the Comic Book version or the Frazetta original.

Since Frank himself worked on the sculpting and detailing of both the miniature I posted, and the full size, 600 lb statue in the video, I think it's safe to say they are pretty much dead on realizations of his 2D art in 3D.. and make it extremely clear the helmet had neither an articulated back, nor a lifting visor.

if you want to make one with those, by all means, f'ngonuts.. but don't call it "death Dealer" because it's not. It's a completely different helmet that has horns on it.

What's your problem dude? "Hey! Make a barbutte! But give it an aventail and a rising visor! Then call it a barbutte! That will be cool!"

If it has a moving visor and articulation, it's not Death Dealer's helm. That's pretty bloody obvious. There's no trolling.. just reality.

Hat's lookin good PB.

Finding horns is gonna be tough. Critters tend to be inconsistent.

Give Spok a scrich behind the ears for me.

Norman wrote:

Maeryk wrote:Frazetta's details are anything but vague. And while the helmet was never identical to any other painting, certain aspects held true throgought...
Since Frank himself worked on the sculpting and detailing of both the miniature I posted, and the full size, 600 lb statue in the video, I think it's safe to say they are pretty much dead on realizations of his 2D art in 3D.. and make it extremely clear the helmet had neither an articulated back, nor a lifting visor.

You are obviously far more expert on the question than I.
My initial reaction was to the helmet reproduction at the top of the page.
But I must observe that this:
http://therealmtoys.com/wordpressorg/wp ... ealerv.jpg
has a very different backplate from this:
http://animewallpapers.lt/albums/FEDORO ... n4-lg.jpeg
and it seems that both are different from the statue you posted.
And - all three backplates differ from the helmet reproduction at the top of this conversation - with all three Frazetta backplates being (looks to me) more functional than the one at the top of the page.
No?

Yeah, they varied from helmet to helmet a bit, but I've gone through every frazetta book I own (and I've been somewhat obsessed with his art for many, many years) and have not found ANY representation of any of the DD incarnations with an articulated tail. In fact, the closest is an English Knight where it's QUITE clear that it articulates.

Also, remember, his kid did a bunch of DD stuff as well.. there are two Frazettas.

The one at the top of the page looks a bit long in the tail.. FF's helmets were usually short.. as the guys wearing them had shoulders that would make an industrial crane proud.

One of my pet peeves is when people make helmets that just won't work.. because they never try to wear it, just try to sell it. (Not you PB.. talking about the original.. ) I doubt that would fit well on most people. But if you go look through the various DD stuff, you'll see the back plate is usually a lot shorter than that.

It's obvious DD never got attacked from the rear.

The helmet shown was made by Lars at Albion swords when they had a licensing deal with Frazzetta Properties. The horns are cast resin. Frank Frazzetta was presented with the first one made ( I saw pics of him with it last time I was out there ). http://filmswords.com/frazetta/dealerhelm.htm

Hi, thanks for the input and ideas guys. Ive researched the DD helm and found it to vary quite a bit in the different pics, I asked, and the customer sent these pics, he asked me to reproduce them so I will.

Norman I like your ideas and agree with you, especially on the articulated back, someone mentioned making the back shorter, I will make it a little shorter than shown, and it will have a flare so you can see the back of the skull in the steel.

Irish, I think your right, I been skimming ebay for weeks and nothing is even close to the shape of these.

Mattmaus, thank you and yes Ive run into the inconsistent bovine problem you mentioned.

D Sebastian, thank you for the info on who can make me the horns, do you have any contact info for that person by chance?

Maeryk, I agree the back should and will be shorter thanks for the idea. The back is my least favorite part of this helm.

Louis, Grimr and Eiledon, Thank you for your good words but now lunch is over and I got to go put the hammer down.


Have a good day

Pitbull

Norman wrote:I do not remember the details of the Frazetta drawing.

Find the first Molly Hatchett albumn.

It was Frazetta's Death Dealer

At one time, I had the helm in the reference photos on my head. It was a wee bit big for me, but it was in fact awesome.

(Actually. . . I also got to run around the shop with the Frost Giant's helm on - I think there were three of us wearing Lars' helms (DD, FG, and his Mantis helm) chasing each other around the cutlery shop. . . what seems like a long time ago in a galaxy far, far, away these days. . .)

Also, for what it is worth, no articulation to be found - visor or tail - on the Bowen Studios sculpture I have in the living room, either.

Oh, and AL, drop Lloyd a line when you get a minute - I was just at the house and he said he's been trying to get in touch with you.

Honestly, there looks to be plenty of room to put that helmet on without articulation. A moving faceplate really won't do a lot either considering the nose and mouth are exposed. I would just mimic the design for what it is and skip the work on elements that don't seem to be part of the original, nor have any serious benefit to the wearer.

Looks like a nice start though PB!

Cheers,

Thanks Milan. Heres a few more pics of it with the horns I found. They are pretty close. Im still looking for some bigger ones though. Spike and top cap are coming around. Looking at the pics Ill have to cut the spike down more I think.

Have a good weekend

Pitbull

Wow... comming along fine.
Yes, the top spike looks too big to me also.

Beat of luck and thanks for the progress pics.

Hal

Great work!

I think thoes horns will be just fine.

Wow, I pass by the statue that’s at III Corps HQ every work day... never seen it up close though.

It seems to me you can cover the entire back and front including the entire face (aside from the eyes) with a mail coif. The representation of the III Corps effigy is “superâ€

very nice work, your skills seem to be increasing with every hammerstroke! Fantastic rendition!