The Armour Archive

I just got my new spagenhelm and need to put in the padding and chin strap. This is my very first helm and I have no idea where to start. I'd like to stick as close to 9th C period methods as possible.

I've sen references to period [adding and suspension but have not been able to find any examples and directions. Can anyone help me with that information?

A picture or 3 would be helpful.

Is this SCA, HEMA, Living history, or Other application?

-Ivan

Welcome and well come, Kaolin.

There's this thread, farther down this page.

Search the site on "bascinet stuffing/stuffynge" "suspension lining" and "quilted lining" which should between them pull up about everything we have.

If this is for SCA fighting I can recommend more the linen liner from Revival US.

http://revival.us/linenhelmetliner.aspx

In 15 years of fighting this is one of the best investments I have made.

Uric

IvanIS wrote:A picture or 3 would be helpful.

Is this SCA, HEMA, Living history, or Other application?

-Ivan

I don't have a picture but it looks like the spagenhelm on Icefalcon's catalogue page. I need the padding and etc to pass SCA fight marshal muster.

The reason I want period is because all the helms I have borrowed so far have had closed cell padding and it hurts when I get hit. I also get a constant ringing in my ears after fight practice. I'm hoping the period stuff, about 3/4 inches of it, will be more comfortable and easier on the old noggin.

Awesome, thank you. I like to make all my own gear where possible. The explanation from Konstantin is almost perfect. I'll need some clarification but this will at least get me started.

PM replied to, and I'll watch this thread. And the other.

Kaolin, Revival's item is a well stuffed edition of what I was talking about, as you can see. It also reaches down farther, making it particularly suited for inserting into bascinets, which got padded down to their bottom edges it seems.

From your posts, it sure sounds like camp foam is something you should stay well away from -- pool noodle and electronics-shipping foam also, though these are more for warheads than for head protection. You got a sensitive head. Tubular pipe insulation might be more your speed in foam. You clearly need something that really decouples your skull from any shocks and vibes your helm sets up.

I want to get a start on the helm tonight and I want to make sure I understand the basic steps. I've garnered most of this info from a couple of posts

1) Use a padding ( I'm thinking water pipe insulation) material to create a band slightly above the eyebrows.

2) Make a linen pad insert. I expect I'll use at least 1/2 inch cotton batting for this.

3) Using leather riveted to the inside of the helm just above the foam padding, attach the padded insert made in step 2. I like the idea of using velcro so I can pull it out for washing.

4) Make a padded coif, thick enough to make up for any extra space left between my head and the padded insert.

5) Get hit in the head repeatedly until I learn to use my shield correctly.

Use quite a lot of Velcro, then, not just a few spots. I see you intend velcro on the leather band, meshing with velcro on the suspension liner.

I'd split the pipe insulation in half lengthwise, and glue it hollow side to the metal, round side to you. A well-fitting alignment of your pipe insulation: run a series of little 1 1/2" chunks of half tube around the brow, setting 'em vertical, and your ventilation channels are all taken care of. It'll look like Batman's utility belt in there.

You can thin out your padded coif over each ear for better hearing, too. Even include an eyelet or buttonhole. Stitch around each ear-pocket to keep it in shape. Padding distinctly muffles sound.

Dumb question but what kind of glue should I use. Epoxy didn't work to well on my pickle barrel gorget.

Try rubber cement first for the pipe insulation, and roughen the metal slightly with 1000-grit from an auto parts store.

Household cement by the same method will be tougher to remove if you change whatever you're doing in there, but may give results you prefer. 3M makes a good one, and you can find household cement in any Home Despot, Lowe's, Orchard, Ace... any large or small hardware store. Household cement will probably work better for sticking the Velcro onto the leather band than rubber cement, but rubber cement might, or Barge cement (comes in a yellow tube, sticks leather together, remains flexible) would do. Keep it ventilated around you when using rubber or Barge, particularly Barge, which I think has toluene or something as its fumey solvent. Could make you dizzy.

Pickle barrel plastic is HDPE and they pick that stuff because it refuses to react with darn near anything -- including glues. Blame the plastic there; it was doing what it was intended to do. I presume the lesson you learned with your gorget was to mechanically fasten the plates to whatever.

I didn't have any rubber cement but I did have E6000 adhesive that I use for my jewellery making. It took a while to dry but seems to be holding good and tight.

While I was doing this I couldn't figure out if I was supposed to do the foam only above the eyes or all the way around at the brow line. I stopped at just above the eyes so I wouldn't have to pull it all out again if I guessed wrong.

Would the adhesive work for holding the leather into place? I'd really rather not drill more holes in my helm than I have to. I plan on using the same adhesive for holding the velcro to the leather, too.

As for the pickle barrel gorget. I ended up using brass rivets to hold the plates to the leather. Pickle barrel is a royal pain in the rump.

OK life derailed me but I think I am ready to work on my helm some more. I of course have questions. I ask a lot of WHY so I understand what I am trying to do. That way if something happens and I can't follow the directions exactly I can find a way to a solution.

So my first why question is :
Why do I put foam padding above the brows? And why does it only go above the brows and not all the way around?

By "brow band" we mean all the way around, like a hatband... at more or less brow altitude.

Go ahead and drill the holes; it won't hurt the helmet, really. If you're being meticulous, centerpunch at the desired locations, drill a pilot hole there using your smallest drill bit, and then drill the final-diameter hole.

A drill press is great for this job, but a handheld drill will serve. It will just take a little more care from you, since you actually have to hold the drill straight. Clumsier guys than you have succeeded. And in the 9th century they didn't have E6000 Household Cement either...

We think they made holes in metal by banging the metal with a pointy punch/drift and a hammer, just enough to pierce it, then filing/grinding the resulting metal-zit into a hole in the metal of the desired diameter.

Konstantin to the rescue. Thank you for answering all my questions. Shoot you even answered the one about attaching a chin strap (which I hadn't even asked yet) when you responded to someone else.

Another question, just to make sure I am clear. After I get the foam put into the helmet, all the way around at the brow, the leather to hold in the suspension is attached to the helmet above the foam?

Do I pad the back and sides of the helm with a separate piece as above or is that part of my separate head padding?

kaolin wrote:Konstantin to the rescue.

Pause for shameless ego-buff of the nails of one hand. Must remember to remove mitten gauntlet...

kaolin wrote:Another question, just to make sure I am clear. After I get the foam put into the helmet, all the way around at the brow, the leather to hold in the suspension is attached to the helmet above the foam?

Below it. The suspension liner and its "hatband" will conceal the foam spangen-frame. The foam browband may well tuck into the leather band, depending on just where you want it to ride. Anywhere right in there is functionally good. Making your interior look 9th-century is still your goal. Smuggling your foam would seem conducive. And ain't I just a snark?

kaolin wrote:Do I pad the back and sides of the helm with a separate piece as above or is that part of my separate head padding?

I can only say "do as necessary." There's nothing at all functionally wrong with more quilted padding attached to the bottom edge of the riveting-in "hatband" part as the rest of the liner was attached above. Or you can fit that part of things to arming coifs. But the first thing you want to do anyway is affix your chinstrap, buckle it on, and see if your helmet rocks on your head to the point where you could see yourself getting smacked upside the jawbones or front teeth from powerful strikes low on your helmet. Probably it won't, though; a great deal of your hat's stability of course comes from how immovably it sits upon your cranium, with the chinstrap providing the finishing touch. There's a whole lot of different stuff that works down this low in a helmet, and the Society has used about all of it. Whatever the addled mind of the Creative Anachronist may conceive... It may be that all you'd want is a few strategically placed patches of foam to stop that, if you wander from the 9th century a bit. (That's strictly from SCA-Engineered, of course.)

Also a possibility for the chin strap: the Y-strap. This thread shows their use on early-type knee and elbow cops, but it is also applicable to helmets.