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looking for patern for 14th century saxon armour

Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:39 pm
by arnolt brekswerd
Good day,

A friend of mine is going to be making me some water hardened leather armour. I was hoping to get a patern for 14th century Saxon armour (Excluding Helm).

Thank you in advance for any assistance.

Arnolt Brekswerd

Re: looking for patern for 14th century saxon armour

Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 11:26 pm
by Konstantin the Red
Welcome, Arnolt.

I reckon the first thing we better do is give you some backgrounding in the fourteenth century. This was a dynamic era of experimentation in armor: this century opened with hauberks, chausses, and bucket helms, and it closed with nearly complete harness of plate. So: 14th century? -- which decade?

Innovations spread, over time, and rather erratically. Some territories were quite behind the times. Others had so little cash for foreign doo-dads that they chiefly confined themselves to home produced stuff -- this was particularly true of Scotland's Highlands & Islands, and their neighbors the Irish.

In Saxony, you'd see the general run of things such as was all through the Germanies and the Holy Roman Empire as it was then. Which was not exactly what it became at its greatest extent, later.

A distinctively German manner of plate armor design did not emerge until the 15th century, and it spent all that century developing. This also gets called things like Gothic, and was noted for an overall slim spikiness to its look, very different in many ways from the rounded masses of the Milan/Italian style. Oh, just for the fun of it, both the Italian and the German would produce each other's style if ordered. Didn't faze the armorsmiths, but can make life interesting for the historian figuring out an armour's provenance or origin. And other regional styles cropped up in the next century, leading to lots of experts' fun identifying and classifying.

For the kind of style you'd like to work on, do things à la German, and/or generally Continental, which was often more ornate than the plainer-looking English taste in tin suits and jupon coverage. Continental armor jupons (these are the origin of the term coats of arms) had fancy borders and fringes and general ornate fripperies, even open fluttery sleeves -- lots of pizzazz. German-school heraldry/heraldic charges would also be much seen. You can indeed end up looking decidedly fourteenth century Kraut with a little research and some well-directed making.

BTW, please describe your helmet, right down to a camail if present.

Re: looking for patern for 14th century saxon armour

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:47 am
by arnolt brekswerd
A picture of the helmet can be seen here:
https://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid= ... 36&theater
it is the armourers facebook page and includes pictures throughout the production process

Re: looking for patern for 14th century saxon armour

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:12 am
by Konstantin the Red
Visored sugarloaf, brass cross-fleury decoration, okay. At least it is fourteenth. Excellent. Nice work if the metal's thick enough to be list-legal -- .0625" or thicker. If it's not, well, same helmet in heavier metal and you're good to go. [He says, ever so casually.] I hope that brass nasalish bit between the sights is strong enough to pass Marshallate inspection. It helps that it tucks behind the visor.

Sugarloafs are associated with the first half of the fourteenth. I for one would be comfortable saying this one is right for c. 1330-1340. How does that kind of thing taste to you?

So what pieces is your crafty friend making of leather for you? The whole shebang neck to knees, or selected bits? Is this indeed for SCA use?

Re: looking for patern for 14th century saxon armour

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:44 am
by arnolt brekswerd
I should note the helmet was not made by the same friend who is making me the leather. I have fought in that helmet for over a year now. The armour my friend is making me out of leather will be his second attempt at leather armour. The first attempt he is currently in the process of making and is working off of no patern. He seems confident (and I trust his abilities) to make all the leather aspects I would need. heck he could probably do the metal aspects as well but curently would not have the tools for it. I juts figured if I am going to go from platic to leather I should at least have the pieces match a "personna" which is in all honestly a barely developped personna.

Sorry forgot to add, yes this is for use in the SCA.

Thanks