A few pictures of my novice work..

[Embalmer]

First plate pieces for me I'm learning a lot though.

[Antonis]

From one novice to another, those look fantastic. The polish is way better than I bother with, and the shaping seems pretty good.

[Tom Balmont]

hello,
About your greave, my first set looked alot like that and when you wear them they will dig in across the top of your foot, take the time and cut out the upsidedown u section and then roll the edge. it will make them more comfortable to wear!
Tom

[Embalmer]

Thanks Antonis! I'm working at it. I'm also refining my polishing process now. It's good, but can be better!

Tom,

Which part are you exactly referring to? The bottom towards the boot? I did curl it out to avoid digging into the top of the foot - but I didn't roll the edge. Do you mean to not curl it and roll it instead? Thanks for the input. I'm looking for any help at this point!

-Balmer

[Konstantin the Red]

He means also to make that bottom end of the greave into an inverted U, instead of straight across with that little flange, which shows every likelihood of scarring up your boots if your ankles ever brush together. The mid-part of that U rides over where your ankle joint meets your instep, and the vertical parts of that inverted U shape descend to cover and protect your ankle bumps. And are dished out to accommodate same. The greave can also be made narrower in there to follow the line of your anatomy and also to ride better upon your lower leg -- by fitting it to you about like a thick coat of paint, see? The mid-part of the U gets flared out to about 45 degrees so it doesn't dig into your instep -- just a nice little curve-out to get the edge pointed away from boot leather or flesh -- a curve about like a roll that's just beginning. Easy enough over a stake or an anvil horn. Your first greave iteration there may be a bit too short for this. But so what; you can still make it into some other limb part.

A greave that actually tries to imitate the curves of the lower leg stops looking like a piece of stovepipe and starts looking like a greave. It's not the simplest armor shape in the world to do (that'd be your spauds) owing to the bowed shape of the shin bone that it is following. The gutter shape you're making actually has to go around a shallow curve. It's rather a bother to get from just cold hammering, easier with hot, and for creased greave fronts one might as easily (if any of this is "as easily") fab it up of two welded halves joining along a shin-curve of a center seam. That's if you weld.

Embalmer, getting a copy of Brian Price's TOMAR (easily available on Amazon, among other online places) and downloading Blackwell's basic armoring PDF from the 'Net would do your design skills a world of good. The reason plate armor looks the way it does is because those shapes are the ergonomic ones. They protect, and they move with rather than against you. The first armoring lesson I learned was not to redesign the wheel. Those shapes got there for a reason.

Other Reading -- Legio Draconis

See also this thread, p. 2, for pics of exactly what we're talking about. And how he did it. The split at the ankle flare-out is a small error; he's going to fill that in. I imagine his other two-halves greave will put just a bit more metal right there to accommodate the extra needed for the bottom of the greave to bell out for the instep. Then he will curl the bottom edge out a little more, or put a roll there, he says.

[wcallen]

The spaulders look like a completely reasonable copy of the TOMAR spaulders. Well done. I still wish I could eliminate that part of the book and put in something that was actually 14th c. instead, but that is my fault followed by Brian's, not yours.

This is what a 16th c. greave looks like.
http://www.allenantiques.com/A-124.html

You can ignore the bottom edge that goes all the way down to the ground, that is not something you want to do and something they did in the 14th or 15th c. but the rest is reasonable for most European greaves. See how it mimics the shape of the leg? That is why greaves are actually one of the hardest pieces of armour to really do well.

Approximating that shape requires hitting pretty much the entire surface of the piece instead of just curling the metal and flairing the ends. I have done them without heat and produced a not un-reasonable result. It is usually easier with heat though.

Strangely enough, they not only look better this way, they actually work better. When they fit they hold themselves up instead of sliding down into your instep.

Wade

[Ironic]

Saying as a novice myself i think you've got a great start.

Its about time I start going back to my shop and making something. *always wanting more tools though..sigh*

[Embalmer]

Thanks guys.

Yes, I see what you guys are saying now. For my first set of greaves I was trying to leave the inverted U part out - I was just trying to make some really basic shin plates. I definitely want to do what you guys are describing though - the "real" greaves.

I'll work on those most likely in my next Greave project. For now, I'm a bit concerned about them banging together..I think I may try to roll the edges of the flanges that I have now on this particular set. That may aleviate some of the scuffing that would occur.

I really appreciate the help and links provided. I'm taking a look!

[Konstantin the Red]

The not-enough-greave situation led to the Society limiting the legal target area to above the knee joint back in A.S. Very-Early -- people were getting their anklebones busted from low shots because not enough fighters had greaves over the anklebones.

You and everybody else, Ironic. You and everybody else.

[Steerpike]

Have a look at
http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=112362&hilit=+gothic+elbow
The pattern discussed and posted is a nice novice project ( I 've made it myself as my second try at armouring).
You get to try flaring, creasing, rolled edges, slotted rivet articulation and forming an anticlastic curve.
(Is it just me, or is the aforementioned AC one of those things in life which is easier to do if you don't realise that it's supposed to be difficult-or at least don't think too hard about it being difficult while you're doing it. Not trying to do it in ten minutes flat probably helps as well...)
Plus it needs no welding (the cop is darted and riveted up the back), and looks spiffy
@wcallen- any chance we could get this pattern up on the Archive pattern library to make it easier to find? If you're busy I'm sure that one of us who has a copy could find the time- fully and properly credited o'course

[Embalmer]

Thanks for the advice and help guys. I feel pretty welcomed by all the helpful responses. Great people here

Thanks again.

[wcallen]

Sure, If anyone wants to put that pattern up somewhere we won't loose it - fine with me.

The things to note are:

Created by Wade Allen & Aaron Toman ... some time in the mid 1980's.
You want 2 of the little lames on each arm.
We didn't cut the final cusp into the cop until after they were dished. It made it easier to line them up. We DID trim to get the cusp on the sides like the ones in the lames.
I think we also ground the edges to line up nicely. The patterns probably aren't precise between the cop, lames and upper arm. Close, but not exact.
Lames were very slightly dished. Cop dished more - probably best to be a little less than TOMAR shows for my "Fake 14th c. spaulders" but similar.
Back of the upper arm is on sliding rivets, front and center on leathers.
Elbow cop best made by dishing the center section, then creasing the middle, then rolling it up, then flairing the edge.
Slightly dish the vambrace - at least the upper half.
We did a roll at the top of the spaulder cop and at the wrist. That little line on the inside of the elbow on the vambrace implies a roll there too. It would have only gone on the inside half, not all the way along the edge (which is easier anyway).
We also creased the spaulder and the center of the vambrace. You can add (subtle) flutes as much as you want to add bling.

Then all of the pieces can either be laced together or laced to your clothing. A couple of holes at the top to lace the spaulder to your shoulder, a buckle on the upper, one in the elbow and 2 on the vambrace and you are good to go.

Just so you don't have to wander if you are reading this later - the patterns were here:

http://home.armourarchive.org/members/l ... 0elbow.bmp

Wade.