what was worn under wisbey coat of plates and with

[gregorykrik]

hi i am new to armor and need to know what kind of armor was was worn with a coat of plates.

[Konstantin the Red]

Welcome and well come, Gregorykrik. Are you equipping for SCA fighting?

The CoP's heyday was c. 1310-1350. Anything in armor from the early fourteenth will do. The century began with helms and hauberks and finished up with nearly complete plate, minus essentially only the articulated plate gorget.

Early bascinet types, which don't look all that much like the bascinets you saw in the last three decades of the century.

But of the bascinets, among the most authentic choices are the round-skull varieties of bascinet or at most with a low center point, perhaps as a creased centerline. Tunnel vervelles (q.v. here with Search) are the expected type, and they are no harder to construct than the later post vervelles.

A 13th-c. barrel helm, the father of the 14th-c. great helm, would alas be out of date. A great would be in your time. The only other well proven choice of helmet is some configuration of kettlehat.

The options in leg protection are fairly wide: the three general types are the gamboised cuisse with kneecop attached, the splinted cuisse, cop, & greave, and the full plate leg, and keep the kneecop's fans plain and simple.

Arm harness is a bit tougher. A rigid period-maven might adopt sleeves of mail, not necessarily full length -- a 5/8- or 3/4-length sleeve might be found -- or else a haburgeon so equipped, even a full hauberk descending to the knees, and then concealed hard elbows and a hard vambrace to cover the arm between mandatory elbow and mandatory hand protection.

[Eltz-Kempenich]

I would argue that CoPs were used fairly commonly well into the 1370s, though perhaps not necessarily by the knightly classes (as would have been the case from say 1310-1340ish). The case can also be made that virtually any combination of helms and limb defenses known in the 14th century were potentially worn with CoPs but almost always with mail shirts. I could be more specific if you were to provide a date, location, and socioeconomic status of a particular individual, as that really are the determining factors. I have a link to a paper I wrote on wisby over in the historical research thread that might be helpful to you.

Welcome and I hope you find your stay here most rewarding! We're a friendly and helpful lot, just so long as you stay away from the political discussions threads!

[gregorykrik]

thanks guys i want to do sca heavy fighting and this is my first suit of armor i'm only sixteen so getting materials and tools is a pain in the ass.

[Eltz-Kempenich]

Lucky for you, CoPs require very little in the way of tools and materials. Plastic plates cut from barrels can even be made into a rather handsome CoP. The shell need only be two layers of heavy canvas that you hand-sew together with heavy thread.

[Cap'n Atli]

Thanks guys; I want to do SCA heavy fighting and this is my first suit of armor. I'm only sixteen, so getting materials and tools is a pain in the ass.

It's okay, you'll grow into it. Look in flea markets, check with neighbors and relatives, keep an eye out for sales, mention it for Christmas (oops!) and birthday; by the time you're 18 or so, you can have a pretty nice set of tools and a stash of useful material. Avoid the imported junk on the sales table at the hardware store unless it looks pretty much goof-proof (anything more sophisticated than a square needs to be closely examined), or expendable.

Of course, if your interest is purely fighting, this is a passing phase; but if you're interested in the craft, or the history, this is a good place to learn.

Good luck, and don't break or burn any fingers!

(Incoming edited for the fun of it!)

[wcallen]

Ignore the T-shirt as a base, but this isn't a terrible interpretation of the right thing to do with a Coat of Plates for the 1340's.

http://www.allenantiques.com/R-31.html

The description includes some references.
Pictures include some of the separate layers.

For SCA combat the hemlet would need a visor, but the rest is actually pretty straightforward and people use it in the SCA.

Wade

[Konstantin the Red]

For birthdays mention Brian Price's TOMAR, which you can Search the site on. At your stage of beginning armoring, the only thing better than a copy of TOMAR is being in an SCA Barony that has a lot of garage armorers in it. Or have parents who are members of said Barony.

So where ARE you located? Oh, Principality of the Mists, West Kingdom. Hell, you can get about in it on the BART, and it's a VERY active and VERY populous bunch.

Except for having simply everything to do to get started, you're very well situated. I know it's daunting at first, so make a particular point of breaking the great goal into many small sub-goals, and get these ticking off, one by one by one. It'll take a while, but you can do it. Make friends, get in on armoring sessions in people's garages.

Re bargain tables at hardware stores -- well, they are still good for nylon ratchet strap-downs (you can bend wooden shields with these) and 350-mm size boltcutters, which are superb if a bit bulky for cutting mail links, making up for their bulk with their power and speed at the job. Or deadblow hammers, which wallop so efficiently they can bend big pieces of T-6 6061 aluminum alloy.