I can't get these lames to articulate.

[Buster]

I'm trying use multiple lames for more articulation, but I can't get it to work.
The pattern I'm using is a shallow-C, but when I put them together, they sit inside each other like this.



How can I make the lames the articulate inside each other?

[Galfrid atte grene]

Two options I know of: Dish the lames - for smooth articulation, or leave a gap at the apex in the "open" position (filled at the "closed" position). Also note, one lame is nearly always enough to provide the necessary amount limb movement on a generic piece (of course certain styles employ more).

[Buster]

Thanks. I'll give your 2nd idea a try.
(The effigy I'm basing my arms on shows a very small and shallow couter with double lames. I'm guessing this design relied a lot on the lames for movement, since the couter is so small/shallow.)

[Galfrid atte grene]

The degree of movement depends mainly on the depth of the couter, so it makes sense that you'd need another set of lames. Method two produces gapping articulation instead of a smooth transition from piece to piece - it won't look good/authentic (but it will *work*). Effectively, the inner lame has a shallower curve and is shorter to produce the gap. With the first method, the lames differ only slightly in width to account for metal thickness.

[Arrakis]

Beware artistic license by artists with no practical experience with real armor and an eye to making body types look a certain way for popular consumption/contemporary bodily ideals.

[wcallen]

The basic point in making limb articulations work correctly is to have the cop at the right depth, the difference between the narrow and wide part of the cop and the curvature of the cop correct. When all of those are just right, things work correctly.

Add to the calculations that (mostly) leg lames are dished and arm ones are rarely dished.

Add to that the fact that authentic armour moves just as far as it needs to and no farther.

With all of that, generally one lame on each side is enough.

Only one really moves on this one:
http://www.allenantiques.com/A-186.html

One lame on each side on these:
http://www.allenantiques.com/A-128.html
http://www.allenantiques.com/A-27.html
http://www.allenantiques.com/A-195.html
http://www.allenantiques.com/A-73.html
http://www.allenantiques.com/A-171.html
http://www.allenantiques.com/A-172.html
http://www.allenantiques.com/A-173.html
http://www.allenantiques.com/A-174.html

http://www.allenantiques.com/A-162.html
http://www.allenantiques.com/A-169.html

On some of these there is some movement between the lames and the main plates too.
On one there is another plate on the lower arm.
In general when you are trying to get multiple lames to work with each other the inner one is cut with more curvature than the next one so that it can sit up inside the cop when straight and you can get some movement in the other direction too.

If you really want to do 2 lames on each side - here are 2 examples:
http://www.allenantiques.com/A-137.html
The articulation is pretty nasty and sloppy, but you can see how the lames work. Badly in this case.
These arms have very narrow cops.

Wade

[Konstantin the Red]

Yes. Dish the lames slightly. Imitate the curvatures of the knee joint you are covering with those lames. At full flexure, each lame covers its one segment of the overall contour. And then, with the joint in full extension, you want the lames collapsing back into each other, and nesting. But if you don't quite hit this ideal condition, they'll still work well enough to start with.

To get them to nest, once you have done that initial slight dishing (dish them until they imitate the curve of the bent joint they lie upon), hammer the one inside the other with a soft mallet, together. You may have to do the same trick with the edges of the lames yet again when you're assembling them with bolts through their rivet holes. That's when things get tricky.

Assemble shell articulation from the center out: punch your starter holes in the cop, then fit the first upper and first lower lames to those holes, with lots of try-and-swivel/try-again. A modified C-clamp or the pinchie-type Vise-Grip are excellent tools for holding things in place while you find where the swivel point really is and you can mark for the hole.

Then you get to do all that again on the next pair of lames. Mark the things as to where they go in the sequence so you don't mix them up.

[Signo]

Try this:
After the cop is shaped, take a thin cardboard or thick paper, stick it inside the cop and trim it to fit deep into the cop, mark the edge of the cop, and rivet position on the cardboard. Fitting your cardboard in this way, correspond roughly to the bent position of your articulation. Now simulate your straightened position, and mark again the edge of the cop, you should check with you already marked rivet holes, or mark new ones if you see that they are not working properly. Now look at your cardboard, it should show two curves and two or four holes depending how you were able to make them fit. Now you can cut all the excess paper and leave proper overlap. Now you have your lame pattern.
Pay attention that paper and metal have different thickness, and this is reflected a bit into the pattern (don't pierce holes before checking positions!!!).