Work in progress- basic SCA helm types ID sheet for newbies

[Pitbull Armory]

KtR quote: Not that it was the same -- the deeper you look into both the Pembs and their three pieces, the more you notice just how different they were from a five-plate like the Prankh. And an overhead view should not be neglected: Pembs are surprisingly flattened side to side, deep front to back. The earlier barrels tended more circular.

Exactly what I was thinking my friend.


Great Idea Ironbadger, thank you for your efforts. I noticed my favorite helm the Frogmouth didnt make the list....Oh well not too many peeps doing sca in those Im guessing anyway :0)


Take care

Pitbull

[Ironbadger]

Umm.....Its not to show them how to make armor- its to allow them to identify specific categories of helmet so they don't have to stumble around in the dark when they want to ask questions, because they have no frame of reference to start.

The reason I came up with this idea originally was talking with two friends who tried to go to a practice in their area a few years ago. Because they knew absolutely nothing, they weren't sure how to ask any questions about the armor they were seeing.

When I asked them what they wanted to know, they both said helmets were the first thing they tried to ask about, because "all the armor looked the same, but the helmets were different"...But got a cold shoulder in trying to get more information.

So, I thought helmets would be a good place to start.
Yes, I know...All armor does NOT look the same...To experienced observers.
But its like when I was trying to learn how to draw.
I tended to get people wanting to teach, who completely skipped over all the basic steps to the advanced stuff...because that was interesting- For them.

Tended to leave me confused and struggling to even grasp what they were talking about, and I couldn't learn a thing from them.
So I remember this when I think about instructing newbies in any subject.


I also have limited time to work on something like this, since it takes away from drawing for a living.

Advanced information beyond a starting point is beyond what I have time to work on...As it is, I won't have time to revisit this for a while as I'm currently in deadline hell again.

-Badger-

This is a great idea. It just seems a little lowest common denominator . I learned to build armour through trial and error. I thought my stuff looked like ass because I had the chance to hold work done by William Hurt of Age of Armour and had that to use as a benchmark for what armour is. Since this was before the sca; there was no scadian armour influence. I was also building my armour to joust in for the upcoming season- so I get it that it's for two completely games but.....
I was just talking to a new guy in our shire who wants to build his own 16th century english kit. I showed him examples of typical sca steel knees/elbows and pointed out articulation and dish depth. He also looked at a few different helms. The point I drove home to him was that if your capable enough to this (typical sca) then spend a few more hours and do it better/ more pleasing to the eye.
1/4" gaps in articulation can be fixed by dishing. And you don't even need a dish Helms shouldn't rely on padding to fit- if you can wrap a rectangle to fit the curve of your spun top, or any other top; then by god man you can shape to pieces to fit the underside of the back of your head, you know, like two trapezoids- or even dart the rectangle. AAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHH
If we show them the way early......
My rant is done.. I'm sorry, sort of.

[Ironbadger]

Hmm....Frogmouth?

I'm sorry, but honestly?
I can't remember ever seeing one on the field.

Some form of drawn study of helmets that goes into depth would be cool to do- but unless I commit to something like a full book project, I can't see myself doing one.

Oh crap....
Now you've done it.

But thats literally years worth of research and time to write and draw.
maybe line drawings, supplemented with copious photos and explanatory text...
Lots of closeup construction images...
Comparative images of related styles and types....


On the other hand....
many, many photo tutorials I see on making armor just do not show intermediate steps.
They just show finished stages, and a text description. And its usually not much to go on.

Dammit...
I don't know if I can take on something like that.

I suppose I can find a publisher in the SCA community, if I were willing to submit a manuscript....
Oh, this place just makes more work for me!

AARRGH!!

-Badger-

KtR quote: Not that it was the same -- the deeper you look into both the Pembs and their three pieces, the more you notice just how different they were from a five-plate like the Prankh. And an overhead view should not be neglected: Pembs are surprisingly flattened side to side, deep front to back. The earlier barrels tended more circular.

Exactly what I was thinking my friend.


Great Idea Ironbadger, thank you for your efforts. I noticed my favorite helm the Frogmouth didnt make the list....Oh well not too many peeps doing sca in those Im guessing anyway :0)


Take care

Pitbull

[Gruber]

I totally get where you're coming from, and love you're idea. I realize that I may have come out of left field on this one, and I apologize. I had my rant aimed at the wrong 'thing'. I saw some of the helms you had drawn (my favorite helm, the salet, among them) for the most part have been regurgitated into "sorta-lets" on the field; you are trying to help by showing people what is on the field- and that's where I got bent. Not that you were giving miss-information, but that the info you are giving IS representative of what people put out there. You held the looking glass and I saw incomplete execution in the armour- all on one page- motionless and staring at all of us.
after reading this, I still sound like a crazy person wearing a potato sack preaching from atop a crate. at myself

[Ironbadger]

Nah, don't worry about it.

This is a project that got started from an experience a couple of friends had a long time ago, and I am not even sure it'll ever be all that useful.

I'm not happy with the sallet I drew in the initial sketch- or the bascinet, for that matter.
(Sallets are my personal favorite too, by the way. )

I can only work on this in my spare time, and I am sure it'll go through multiple revisions before its over.

I am also sure I'll hear from everyone who pounds steel here before its done, complete with enough suggestions to cover the ceiling of the Sistine chapel and the walls of the public restrooms to boot!

-Badger-

I totally get where you're coming from, and love you're idea. I realize that I may have come out of left field on this one, and I apologize. I had my rant aimed at the wrong 'thing'. I saw some of the helms you had drawn (my favorite helm, the salet, among them) for the most part have been regurgitated into "sorta-lets" on the field; you are trying to help by showing people what is on the field- and that's where I got bent. Not that you were giving miss-information, but that the info you are giving IS representative of what people put out there. You held the looking glass and I saw incomplete execution in the armour- all on one page- motionless and staring at all of us.
after reading this, I still sound like a crazy person wearing a potato sack preaching from atop a crate. at myself

[Gruber]

LOL!!!! We (I) are grateful for your efforts, and don't want to take away from that; but man- I have seen salets like those on the field!!!! We must save our beloved helms from the abominations. All of us!!! How I can help, I do not know. That makes my input worthless. Suggestions without a course of action is just whining.

[Ironbadger]

Oh, indeed.

I was not happy with the sallet I drew in there, and intend a better version for the final.
All the input I receive is welcome, even when its not so complimentary.

All of it, no matter the tone is helpful, and vital for me to judge whether my ideas for projects like this are useful..Or a complete waste of time...Or worse, creating a problem rather than solving one.

-Badger-

LOL!!!! We (I) are grateful for your efforts, and don't want to take away from that; but man- I have seen salets like those on the field!!!! We must save our beloved helms from the abominations. All of us!!! How I can help, I do not know. That makes my input worthless. Suggestions without a course of action is just whining.

[Andrea Ferrara]

The only Problem I see at the moment is the generalization of the Sallet

my English Style Sallet is conical all the way round on the bottom no lobster point

a Sallet is anything designed in which you would use a Bevor with imho

basically where your gorget/bevor is in historical use half your helmet

then again im no historian and going of my own opinion