railroad stuff

[Thomas Powers]

I am not a fan of RR spike knives; I feel they are a one trick pony and are much like a dancing bear. They are extremely un-medieval too. I have collected good information of spike composition for years now and have it to hand for just these times.

(Note too that collecting spikes/metal along a railbed is illegal and homeland security may take an interest in people caught doing so. I buy any RR steel I need at the local scrapyard to avoid such issues)

1050 would not be bad unfortunately spikes ARE NOT THAT HIGH; however rail anchors can be in that region---the weird ampersand looking things---they often have twice the carbon content as a spike. HC spikes top out at the BOTTOM edge of medium carbon steel

RR Spikes make quite clunky unmedieval KLO's (note how many medieval blades have wittle tangs not massive heavy steel ones.)

Spike contents:
American Railway Engineering Association's Specifications for Soft-Steel Track Spikes. Original document, 1926, revised last in 1968

Two classes of track spikes are given specifications, both low carbon and high carbon. Two sizes of track spike are identified, one of 5/8 inch squa
re shaft and one of 9/16 inch.

Page 5-2-1. "A low carbon track spike will not contain greater than 0.12% carbon nor greater than 0.20% copper.

Page 5-2-2 Section 11. Marking. A letter or brand indicating the manufacturer shall be pressed on the head of each spike while it is being formed. W
hen copper is specified, the letters "CU" shall be added.

Page 5-2-3: Specifications for high carbon steel track spikes 1968. Carbon not greater than 0.30%, nor greater than 0.20% copper. Page 5-2-4. Sectio
n 6a. Bending properties: The body of a full size finished spike shall stand being bent cold through 120 degrees around a pin, the diameter of which
is not greater than the thickness of the spike without cracking on the outside portion of the bent portion.

Page 5-2-5 Section 11. Marking: A letter or brand indicating manufacturer and also the letters "HC" indicating high carbon, shall be pressed on the
head of each spike while it is being formed. When copper is specified, the letters "CU" shall be added."

Additionally included in a fax to Mike Blue by the gentleman at Wellington industries, a division of Sheffield Steel:
"Because of the bending tests required, the carbon content will not be greater than 0.30%. After all, brittle spikes would not be desirable as a track spike. A bent spike still holds the rail while a fractured spike would not. The consequences for the industry would be too great to consider. However, we refer to them as high carbon, they are not within the range of steels known as high carbon or hypereutectoid according to the steel industry standards, and have not been since at least 1926, when most track spikes were previously manufactured from wrought iron."

Of course, while some people will say .30% is bad, I know from personal experience that a well made spike knife will take a good edge. It's very likely that the document lays out desired guidelines, but the margin for error is high and some spikes end up with plenty carbon to be made serviceable
. Which is why we always spark test them first.


From Matt B on Anvilfire 08/08/2007 12:10:21 EDT
"The current standard for rail anchors is 1040-1060 steel, depending upon manufacturer."

----------------------------------------------------
MattBower
Location: Northern Virginia
I had a rail anchor -- probably from Unit -- analyzed recently. Here's the chemical breakdown:

C: 0.51 | Mn: 0.80 | P: 0.01 | S: 0.03 | Si: 0.18 | Cu: 0.24 | Cr: 0.07 | Mo: 0.02 | Ni: 0.07 | Sn: 0.010 | V: 0.002 | Cb/Nb: 0.015


Rail Anchor:
C **0.63
Mn *0.79
P **0.008
S **0.027
Si**0.20
Cu *0.24
Cr *0.13
Mo *0.02
Ni *0.08
Sn *0.009
Nb(Cb)*0.026
V **0.004

unmarked, older spike
C - 0.30
Mn - 0.80
Si - 0.25
Cu - 0.025
Cr - 0.10
Ni - 0.12
Sn - 0.02
V - 0.002

newer spike. He said it was marked MC. Not sure if that's a maker's mark, or what.

C - 0.25
Mn - 1.00
Si - 0.23
Cu - 0.32
Cr - 0.10
Ni - 0.11
Sn - 0.02
V - 0.026

From Matt B on Anvilfire 08/08/2007 12:10:21 EDT
"The current standard for rail anchors is 1040-1060 steel, depending upon manufacturer."

----------------------------------------------------
MattBower
Location: Northern Virginia
I had a rail anchor -- probably from Unit -- analyzed recently. Here's the chemical breakdown:

C: 0.51 | Mn: 0.80 | P: 0.01 | S: 0.03 | Si: 0.18 | Cu: 0.24 | Cr: 0.07 | Mo: 0.02 | Ni: 0.07 | Sn: 0.010 | V: 0.002 | Cb/Nb: 0.015

That came from a CSX/Amtrak rail bed.

Thomas, back from Wales

[Zohar]

Ok. Finals are done! My ejection port was "Meets or exceeds Military Standards", the feed jammed, but a bit of gun oil fixed that. This means that I can now work in earnest to get things shipped. Thank you for being patient and waiting.

The list is so far:

Lord Finnvarthr Finnbogason-spikes and bolts
Dougal Forester, House Bloodguard-Pennsic spikes and bolts
Andrew Jones-small or med FRB spikes only
Scott S-spikes and bolts
Aaron Carter-spikes and bolts
Bigfredb- 2 boxes rail track plus bolts and spikes
Losthelm- small track piece bolts spikes
Randy- Track
Neoxai-2 boxes track+
Patternweld-box o stuff
Whoknew-bolts
Marco-borromei- bolts
Kilkenny-spikes (SM box)
Thaddeus-spikes

The track is able to be in a flat rate box at 12 inches, because of its height, I can't get a longer piece in on the diagonal. Track is 5.5" wide by 7" tall. It weighs 155 lbs/yd which comes out to about 50 lbs for a 12" piece. If people want a bigger piece, I can do that, but it is a bugger to ship, since over 70 lbs can't ship USPS. If you want a big piece, I can bring stuff to Pennsic if you go or can cajole a friend to bring it back for you, or ship big. My zip code is 16823, so you can estimate shipping. If you find it viable to do, let me know. I just realized I no longer have a paypal account, but I will look at setting one up to make this easier for people.

-Zohar

[Marco-borromei]

Congrats on your finals.

I'd like to ammend my request: Could I please have one piece of rail and as many bolts as you can fit under the weight limit?

Which size flat rate box are you using? That will let us know how much shipping will cost.

Thank you again for this generous offer. Please let me know if you incur any costs cutting the rail, I'll happily cover my share.

[Zohar]

I figure since all of the shipping weight are the same, I should just use a large flat rate box unless specified as something else. If you order rail, I have to use a large box. the large flat rate boxes are $15.50 or something thereabouts.

[Thomas Powers]

Note that to get pieces of steel to actually show up in a flat rate box you generally have to build a box to fit inside their box and of wood if you can. After losing several packages of real wrought iron I started doing it that way and having them arrive.

(They were not amused when I in turn received a flat rate box with 68 pounds of steel in two piece of roundstock---but I had the shipper tape the address to each piece as well so I could still get it after their box shredded)

[Marco-borromei]

Checking in... let me know how and when to pay you.

[bigfredb]

Checking in... let me know how and when to pay you.

Same here

[Zohar]

Sorry about that. Just to let you know, I was in Chicago for a funeral this weekend. It was sprung on me, as they often are, but I am back. I do not have the numbers at the moment to fill all the orders at once. I am working on that, but I think I will be sending out batches. It will also make me much less hated by a rural mail carrier who has to haul them. I set up a paypal, but I am also willing to put an addressed stamped envelope in the package. Sorry for this being slow. It takes a while to get these, because the rail road guys only let me take a few at a time. I AM NOT, AND DO NOT want to be, or be thought of as a thief. I know that that is the furthest thing from anyone's mind, but a friend of mine who owns a junk yard and does some basic Appalachia smithy stuff (read "Hack smith") has warned me about sending anything because the "feds are everywhere". I discount the fact that he is a gun totin', government hatin', hillbilly, but I can't deny the possibility of a .1% chance of him being right. I am sending the packages in order of people responding. And if you want stuff delivered at Pennsic, as DF and LH do, it gives me time and allows for more stuff sent your way.

Thanks for being patient.

Zohar

[Marco-borromei]

My condolences on your loss. Please do not think I am in a rush, and take as much time as you need. Your offer is extremely generous in the first place, so I can certainly be happy with whatever time you need to meet all your other obligations and then deal with this.

I posted mostly as a reminder to myself that I do need to pay you [and so not to lose the thread].

Thank you again, Marco

[bigfredb]

My condolences on your loss. Please do not think I am in a rush, and take as much time as you need. Your offer is extremely generous in the first place, so I can certainly be happy with whatever time you need to meet all your other obligations and then deal with this.

Here, Hear!!

[Cryptos]

If you happen to have any thing left over, drop me a line. A stake or two and maybe a 4-5 inch section of track. Let me know whenever you are ready, and after all of those ahead of me have gotten theirs, and we will talk.

[Thomas Powers]

Anyone have any good ideas for mine rail? Quite small cute RR rail, it shows up at the scrap yard ever so often. I have a standing request for the miniature RR spikes that are used with it but they are much harder to find.

[Marco-borromei]

Anyone have any good ideas for mine rail? Quite small cute RR rail, it shows up at the scrap yard ever so often. I have a standing request for the miniature RR spikes that are used with it but they are much harder to find.

I'd torch through the thinnest part under the rail, then weld it Bach together as a.T stake. Maybe heat and bend the rail for anticlastic curve work.

[Thomas Powers]

You want a piece? I already owe you a mill ball, I could throw both in a flat rate box...

[Marco-borromei]

You want a piece? I already owe you a mill ball, I could throw both in a flat rate box...

sure, thanks. lemme know how much I owe you and how to pay it.