The Armour Archive

My daughter is about to start SCA heavy again. She is VERY petite (5'2" ~100 lbs), but athletic and moves well from her MA background. Ultimately she will probably fight spear, but she needs to authorize Sword & Board first.

When she was a Youth we had a set of plastic lamellar made from mudflaps, but I definitely want to do better by her now that she is an adult.

I was thinking of a heavy leather lorica under a tunic, but wanted some advice from others who may have built for a similar body build (or who have one and fight regularly) on what they found works or not. I'd like to get her in something she is comfortable in and well protected without having to re-engineer too many times (gets expensive). She will get steel knee and elbow cops (her daddy worries).

Any thought or advice are appreciated.

Is LA in Meridies? Do they still have the "one authorization fits all" system? Is that why she can't auth spear first?

I have a friend who fights on occasion who is 5'6" and maybe 120lbs, and she does just fine in a breastplate. I'm a fan of breastplates myself (though I do not myself have boobs).
Hers is heat molded plastic covered with crushed velvet.
Mine is steel and works just as well.

I've never noticed my breastplate getting in the way of fighting spear or pole. I'm not sure I would want to wear it for sword and shield, but that's only because it's been so long since I've tried.

If you are going to hide it, why worry about making it leather?
Also, if you are going to make it leather, why use an A-historical shape?

I am a fan of using lamallar for woman fighters. You can tailor it to their shape easily and it conforms to their body types easier than more rigid styles.

If you are worried about weight and you are going to hide it, use plastic lamallar and cover with a tunic.

1350 ish era
coat of plates, splinted arms and legs, padding to taste.

easy, stylish and like a tank.

A person's size really doesn't determine the armour style. Smaller person, smaller armour.

Take a look at the different armours I have done for my son from about age 3 to 12:

http://www.allenantiques.com/Reproducti ... ction.html

Leave out the mail and this one is pretty straightforward:

http://www.allenantiques.com/R-31.html

This one is a pretty simple set of parts:

http://www.allenantiques.com/R-16.html

This one isn't all that complex either:

http://www.allenantiques.com/R-17.html

I was 6 foot, 135 when I did most of my fighting and I wore a breastplate, steel legs, and other stuff. Sort of a 14th c. mish-mash.

Wade

Women wear a dazzling variety of armor types, so my advice would be to have her pick a time period and style that she likes and tailor the armor to fit that. Even if she wants to do early period, you can do hidden armor that will protect spots more likely to get broken on a petite or skinny person.

There's women who fight with lots of chest protection, and even women who don't fight with any. Armoring women is no different than armoring men. Individual differences play a bigger part in how to armor a person well than gender imo. Here's a link to an armor gallery of women fighters I put together with the help of a bunch of the fighter gals at the Girl's Club. There's women of many different shapes and sizes, from teeny tiny to amazonian.

http://scachickswithsticks.com/fighterphotos/

One of my favorites is Eichling's Armor. You can see it at http://www.swordmaiden.net/home/arms-an ... ngs-armor/ and since the pattern link is broken a quick google search turns up an archive of it at www.alonatwotrees.com/library/howto/eichling.pdf

Again (I never do this)

>start personal opinion feel free to ignore.

In many cases armour isn't actually built like the male body or the female body. The waist needs to line up with the right waist and arms and legs need to work, but the coverage for the body can usually be made to work like the originals and to flatter the human form in general such that you don't have to build "female" armour. Fern may or may not fight anymore and this isn't the best picture, but she is definitely a woman and this is what she wore at one point:

http://chivalry.midrealm.org/peer_new.php?input=112

I was working with a female fighter recently. A "normal" breastplate with a short fauld would have worked very nicely for her. She just needs for the waist to be in the right place.

I have never actually met her, but I expect that Eichling's armour could have been built like the original from which she patterned it without the modifications and it still would have worked for many women, maybe even for her.

Wade

Mistress Janet Virago Parva of House Morningstar, OL, OP, may she rest in peace, fought in leather but covered it in a tunic.

Kerry Pratt wrote:One of my favorites is Eichling's Armor. You can see it at http://www.swordmaiden.net/home/arms-an ... ngs-armor/ and since the pattern link is broken a quick google search turns up an archive of it at http://www.alonatwotrees.com/library/howto/eichling.pdf

I have been looking for that pattern to complete the article! Thanks.

At an event in Calontir, there was a couple of women that wore Coat of Plates.

IMHO, since you know she already likes to fight, I would start with personna. What is her personna, time period, etc.? This will dictate some of her choices.

Kerry Pratt wrote:One of my favorites is Eichling's Armor. You can see it at http://www.swordmaiden.net/home/arms-an ... ngs-armor/ and since the pattern link is broken a quick google search turns up an archive of it at http://www.alonatwotrees.com/library/howto/eichling.pdf

I have had the honor of fighting Eichling on several occasions. She is a most honorable and worthy adversary.

I would say Milanese harness of XV° century, but then don't blame me if everyone will try to date her (and I don't mean try to guess the correct period of her harness!). Ahahhahahahhaha.

I consider leather (unhardened) to be near the bottom of the barrel, protection wise. I would advise using the barrel itself *heyo!* for the hidden armour (if she wants to hide it). It is light, protective, cheap, and very easy to work with.

I made a Type 1 Wisby COP for my (now) wife out of 20 Ga stainless and duck cloth. She was 5'2" and about 130 lbs, and the armour is still in use on (its third) female fighter. Total Weight was under 5 pounds (Total!) for the body.

You can find the article (sorry, no patterns or pics of the final piece) which was used in the A&S entry here:
http://borealissteel.com/Articles/Armou ... by_COP.pdf
This is not linked from the main page, since the updated article will go here once I make the new COP article (which will include patterns).

The article *does* include some of the template and sizing notes (like the front plates being 1/3 of the curcumference of the wearer, and the sizes of the side plates) so you should be able to save some patterning time by starting with something close.

Scott Martin

Sir Fern continues to fight. She has a full plate harness.

Sir Fern is amazingly nimble in her rig too. What is her's; mid to late 14th century??? My recommendation would be a late 15th century German rig. Wasp waist, leg armour starts at the point of the hip, total coverage with total freedom of movement. On her frame it might weigh in at around 40 lbs. 22-18gague on everything except the head- there you can go up to 14 gauge, but with all the fluting in the helm 16 is more than enough in 1050 spring steel; hardened and tempered of course. It'll run you some cash, but it will be the last suit she'll ever need to.

You can do a good impression from most of the spectrum of time periods in the SCA with a little research and elbow grease. Here are some articles on doing hidden armor and looking great on a budget. I don't really know what you have in mind to spend, but you can do effective armor for almost any time period and culture and look decent.

http://www.swordmaiden.net/home/arms-an ... r-thyself/

viewtopic.php?t=94359&highlight=hidden

viewtopic.php?t=93806

wcallen wrote:A person's size really doesn't determine the armour style. Smaller person, smaller armour.

Take a look at the different armours I have done for my son from about age 3 to 12:

http://www.allenantiques.com/Reproducti ... ction.html

Leave out the mail and this one is pretty straightforward:

http://www.allenantiques.com/R-31.html

This one is a pretty simple set of parts:

http://www.allenantiques.com/R-16.html

This one isn't all that complex either:

http://www.allenantiques.com/R-17.html

I was 6 foot, 135 when I did most of my fighting and I wore a breastplate, steel legs, and other stuff. Sort of a 14th c. mish-mash.

Wade

+1

Seriously.

Do you think smaller people should wear different clothing? Why should armour be any different?

armor for small women-small but fiesty.

http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fb ... =1&theater

Elizabethan. Waist drawn in at the sides, naturally flared hip armour, suiting a female shape. Seriously tank like!

Course, I think everyone should be in Elizabethan for everything

Full spring plate is awesome. But I am not going to assume you have the $10,000 and two or more years for that to be constructed.

What skills do you have? Leatherworking? Any metal working skills?

In general, I would say that you will have a hard time buying anything off the shelf to fit decently beyond a helmet. So buy her whatever style helmet she likes and go with the time period from there. If you have leather skills, use them to make what is appropriate to the time period of the helmet. If you don't, get some free plastic barrels and start practicing heating and shaping. The plastic can be covered by garments or directly covered with fabric and thin leather for those period where such would be appropriate.

Put the most and heaviest armour on her thighs and behind. Put the least armour on her arms. Keep it light. Realize that 40 pounds is 40% of her body weight and is likely too damn much armor. Most 200 pound guys don't wear 80 pounds of armour in the SCA.

Lorica might be fine for body armour as would just about any other style. Until she fights spear, she probably isnt going to get hit in the body much. Realize being short and doing sword and shield, she is going to receive a lot of blows from above coming down to her head, shoulders, and maybe even upper back. So put something there. Don't lose your mind and over armour. I got by with kids soccer kneepads over my shoulders (hidden by my gambeson) for years. I finally found a pair of tiny spaulders that fit last year. But it took years of buying custom pieces that didnt fit to get them. And I am a lot bigger than your daughter. 5'5" and 175 pounds.

Good luck.