The Armour Archive

I'd like some low-profile protection to wear under a mail haubergeon for SCA fighting... But want to maintain a period look of a gambeson.

So.... I'm thinking of making a coat of plates with short rectangular plates oriented vertically and quilted. This would give me the low-profile protection of a coat of plates but with the look of a gambeson.

Anyone ever try this?

One thought. Amazon (or any other seller probably;amazon is just simpler if your buying one roll) has rolls of .031" 301 full hard SS. You could take a 4" wide roll of that, split it into 2 2" strips and then sew those into a gambeson. You'd get a decent amount if protection, little weight, and a very low profile. also, since it's stainless, it won't rust.

Thanks. My original thought was to use barrel plastic.

Id like to see it when its done. I'm moving my kit over to maile and was thinking of a Churburg type breastplate made of barrel plastic and covered in leather.
For a little extra chest protection. The maile is heavy enough , that's why I considered plastic.

Silly question, why don't you just make a thick gambeson and reinforce it with leather in the inside?
To make a thick gambeson, make several thinner ones as thick as your machine can handle, put one inside the other and join them at the hems by hand.
Then punch a few holes into a leather breastplate and stitch it loosely to the inside. If you make a half sleeve gambeson, you can also reinforce the sleeves that way.

I don't want a thick gambeson, too hot for fighting.

I made one patterned off of a suit vest. There is blue foam strips in the picture, but I have spring steel splints that I use.







Uric

Nice!

Have you considered a jack? It's a bit more work for the tailor but looks great with a proper kit.

losthelm wrote:Have you considered a jack? It's a bit more work for the tailor but looks great with a proper kit.

I think what's what Thrifty Knight suggested. I think it would be too hot. What I want is something thin and cool and lightweight to wear under a heavy mail haubergeon.

My thoughts now are to make a short-sleeve gambeson (not quite accurate for my 12th Century kit but better for fighting).

(1) The first (inner-most) layer will be a single layer of natural linen.

(2) The second layer will be ~1" x ~5" padded plastic plates oriented vertically in columns.

(3) The third layer will be linen sewn around the plates (horizontally and vertically) to hold the plates in place in a checkerboard pattern.

(4) The fourth layer will be sewn over the 3rd layer, but quilted only vertically for "the look" (and to add another outer layer for more durability).

I will sew curved, padded shoulder plates into the shoulders.

In the end, I hope to have something like this, but with vertical columns of plastic plates inside instead of vertical columns of wool batting:

You keep saying you are worried about heat and then you say you plan on using plastic. Does the irony of that statement not occur to you? Plastic, in any form other than sweat wicking hi-tech clothing material is a heat insulator. It won't matter if you have one layer of linen or fifteen because the plastic is the limiting factor when it comes to heat retention. If you are worried about heat, you should use a metal that works as a heat conductor so that the heat can be carried away from your body and released to the general atmosphere. I have found that aluminum is the the best overall metal if you don't have heat treating available to you. It is an excellent conductor of heat and it does not retain heat for long. The only downside is that it has to be thicker for the same amount of protection than steel but since you are thinking of using plastic, anyway, this shouldn't be a problem for you. Aluminum's protection is greater than plastic for an equivalent thickness. Aluminum is also cheap and generally just as easy to find as plastic. Go to your nearest metal recycling place (or ask the Department of Transportation what they do with signs once they are done with them) and ask for discarded road signs or other forms of aluminum.
And one last note... It should go without saying that you should legally acquire your road signage rather than removing signs from active highways. To steal them would be irresponsible and dangerous.

I use strips of garden hose in my war skirt and I love it. But if you plan onsticking with plastic, you could perferate the plates with little holes to let air through.

Kerry Pratt wrote:If you are worried about heat, you should use a metal that works as a heat conductor so that the heat can be carried away from your body and released to the general atmosphere.

I had the opposite impression regarding plastic versus metal... Thank you.

That's why I suggested 301 stainless. Already comes tempered, thinner, so it gives a much lower profile and about the same strength as .1" road sign aluminum, in my opinion.

Caius705 wrote:One thought. Amazon (or any other seller probably;amazon is just simpler if your buying one roll) has rolls of .031" 301 full hard SS. You could take a 4" wide roll of that, split it into 2 2" strips and then sew those into a gambeson. You'd get a decent amount if protection, little weight, and a very low profile. also, since it's stainless, it won't rust.

Could you provide a link for the rolls of 301? I'm seeing sheets but not rolls.

http://www.amazon.com/Stainless-Standar ... 24L0&psc=1

This is the one I had in mind. Have not tried this particular one myself, so I'm not certain about the temper.

When I was doing a Crusader SCA fighting impression what I did was this:

I wore a weight lifting belt for kidney protection over a linen undershirt, and then my quilted gambeson on top of that. Then my maille on top of that.

This was sufficient.

Steve

I'm just now heading into an 'aketon', with the requisite hard parts on the interior, to keep a low profile, and to better portray an early 13th century crusader (who's not quite so high on the pecking order..footman/foot soldier style)

Randall Moffet has been of invaluable help in this. Might be worth checking out the thread I started, which was similar in nature to this one.

Otherwise, have a great day

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=160391&hilit=aketon

I did almost the same as Steve, except my leather kidney belt went over the gambeson. Cover the belt in the same fabric, or dye it to the same color, and it's almost invisible. You could even do it with a fabric belt with pocketed plates if you really feel the reinforcement is needed.

You must've sparred with fighters who hit like girls.

Steve -SoFC- wrote:When I was doing a Crusader SCA fighting impression what I did was this:

I wore a weight lifting belt for kidney protection over a linen undershirt, and then my quilted gambeson on top of that. Then my maille on top of that.

This was sufficient.

Steve

Harry Marinakis wrote:I'd like some low-profile protection to wear under a mail haubergeon for SCA fighting... But want to maintain a period look of a gambeson.

and

My thoughts now are to make a short-sleeve gambeson (not quite accurate for my 12th Century kit but better for fighting).

I've found a soft short sleeve to the gamby does not mix well with a mail shirt; putting the shirt on drags the short sleeves with it and leaves them bunched in your armpits. To avoid this nuisance, I recommend long sleeves fitted close, even long enough to grab for a moment as your haburgeon drops into place. Ventilate 'em as much as you care to at armpit and elbow. Are you in a generally hot part of Aethelmerc? I know it gets warm there in the summertime... Pennsics 17, 19, and earlier too. Well -- linen, linen, linen. Linen-silk sounds good too. Linen-cotton, you're starting to deal with cotton's tendency to soggily retain water.

You can bear up under a hot gamby so long as you drink enough water. Gatorade -- well, you really only need about two or three good belts of the stuff to rightly rebalance your humours after hot fighting. The rest of what you put down should just be plain water. Iced if you like -- core cooling is what makes icewater refreshing. So don't hesitate to bring, and drain, a gallon jugful. It's moist and messy, but it does work. Worked even better in cold, dank, medieval Europe -- now, it's just not medieval any more. Place doesn't get enough sun.

I stitched 6" x 3" pockets to the lining of my gambeson and stick plates in where I need them. I will wear either a tunic or tunic and mail over this, but this is basically what my body armour consists of.

This is my solution the the problem

http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/hersir/8 ... 61_600.jpg

Uric, where do you get your spring steel splints from?