The Armour Archive

Hey folks, So, this is the sibling thread to the bandsaw thread.

Short version is that I am considering investing in a step up in tooling for some of the major pieces of equipment in my shop. One of the most used pieces of powered equipment is my belt sander which is currently the Grizzly knife/belt sander. Its been a perfectly fine machine, assuming you don't lean into it much (import quality belt tracking....)

So I'm looking at either a Bader 3 wheel model or one of the Burr-kings which appear to be merely a superior version of what I have now, the two wheel and platten sander.

Do folks with really good grinders have any suggestions, advice or recommendations for what may be best for an armourer? I have no experience with either of these machines and no one I know within driving distance has one for me to play with. On the grizzly I tend to rely on the contact wheel, but as I've been getting into higher end work, good slack belt ability is becoming increasingly important to me. The grizzly just doesn't track very well.

Also, any reason to deviate from the standard 2x72" belts?

Thanks folks.

I have a Burrking 960 , a Coote with a 10" contact wheel and Wilton square wheel- I mostly do slack belt sanding for finishing and find the larger slack area provided by the 2 wheel Grinders most useful for armour work.

I have no educated opinion about Bader vs. Burr King.

But I do have some knowledge about the Grizzly.

When I set mine up the way they tell you to, I had problems with tracking too - esp. when working slack.
Then I did what Tom did. He did it because his ceiling is built for dwarves. He couldn't set the non-drive wheel straight up because the ceiling was in the way. So he just turned it down. Drive wheel on top, the other one on the bottom.

I can work on the slack all day with as much twisting as I want to do and it tracks absolutely straight. This appears to be because as you twist the belt it has a long time to get back to straight before it hits the next wheel. When you set it up the "right" way, you are pushing it around just above the wheel, so it goes off track.

Since trying this is free, try it. Then decide if you want one of the "better" ones.

Wade

Cet, the 960 is exactly the model I was looking at for Burr-king... Thanks much for chiming in.

Can I query you as to, to your knowledge, what the advantage of the 3 wheel setup like the bader is? More for knife makers who don't need the useable surface area we do for comparatively large ungainly pieces?

Wcallen, thats bizarre in a "oh that makes sense" kind of way. I'm getting a dedicated buffer (finally getting a baldor) so the second arbor on the grizzly won't see much use. My apprentice could really use it as a starter machine the way I did all these years. I'll let him know the trick though, maybe he'll be happier with it than I have been as a result.

I think the 3 wheels like the Bader or Wilton are more useful if you need to use different radius contact wheels- something kingmakers do but not something I find particularly useful for armouring. I actually use the Coote most as it's belt change is really fast and it has a smaller contact wheel than my 960 so it's has a commensurately longer slack area. The tracking on the 960 is excellent though and the variable speed is nice to have if it's in your budget.

I have a couple Burr king 480 variable speed , and the Grizzley. I find the Grizzly great for grinding welds and some slack sanding. also the extra spindle is nice, I use it for Formax.
I just bought a third wheel to install on the Grizzly to keep it really on track. Depending on your production the Grizzley should cover all your bases.
I have used the Baders, They are awesoem. But to really take advantage you gotta get the extra arms and such.

I had a 960 and it pretty much did what my Grizzley does. I let it go because I was offered a AR-15 and a motorcycle for it. I couldnt say no.

D

wcallen:

Thanks, I just tried it and it helped a lot. I ended up taking the backing plate and the tool rest off for slack sanding. When I use it to sand edges I put the backing plate back on.

The primary advantage of the one Burr king I have used is its motor, it has a 3/4hp motor and it is very "torquey", not likely to be stopped short of leaning on it with full body weight. The baderIII that I used was also very good very smooth running was set up for knives and had a very nice platen. It was all beautiful cast parts and was spendy to repair if things broke down but well designed.

That said I bought a KMG set up, it has good bearings and tracking and its flexiblity for transition between platen and slack belt was a compelling feature and the cost for the set up allowed me to shop for motors independent of wheels and tracking assembly. Worth a look:
http://www.beaumontmetalworks.com/shop/

Craig Nadler wrote:wcallen:

Thanks, I just tried it and it helped a lot. I ended up taking the backing plate and the tool rest off for slack sanding. When I use it to sand edges I put the backing plate back on.

Having just used his sander last weekend I'd say another benefit of the under slung set up is that you can look down the belt at the contact point of the work piece. I've used traditional 6" wide belt Deltas that were upright and I tend to get my head close to the belt trying to look at what I am doing.

It's on my Birthday list.

VRIN wrote:The primary advantage of the one Burr king I have used is its motor, it has a 3/4hp motor and it is very "torquey", not likely to be stopped short of leaning on it with full body weight. The baderIII that I used was also very good very smooth running was set up for knives and had a very nice platen. It was all beautiful cast parts and was spendy to repair if things broke down but well designed.

That said I bought a KMG set up, it has good bearings and tracking and its flexiblity for transition between platen and slack belt was a compelling feature and the cost for the set up allowed me to shop for motors independent of wheels and tracking assembly. Worth a look:
http://www.beaumontmetalworks.com/shop/

I used one of those in 3 wheel form when we were building the power hammers. It was a very nice grinder for what I was doing there - grinding pieces of machine tool.

Everyone will have their own opinions (seriously, it is amazing how different people are, Tom and I can't use the same tools do to the same thing without massive pain), but I prefer my Grizzly for armour work.

Wade

The 3 wheel set up is good for mounting a platen between the two contact wheels.
Baders are excellent blade grinding tools. Cant say for sure about armour uses.
I have a KMG clone built from a kit.
It works pretty well and had a good entry price point.
The issues I experience with mine are self induced, the machining I did was imprecise and has resulted in some tracking issues.
But generally I would second Vrin's perspective on the Beaumont KMG - a solid piece of equipment that can be modified to task as needed.

Ping me offline if you are interested in dropping by and trying out mine, I am halfway between you and Craig.

Kingmakers like blademakers use a lot of different sized wheels 1/2" dia - 12" diameters for the blademakers I have known personally.

I went with the Bader because that was what the swordmaker I trained under used and we did a lot of slack belt work on guards---including the stupidly dangerous technique of putting your arm through the middle of the belt--loop to hold a piece at times.

1.5 hp is generally considered around the minimum. Bader accessories are quite pricey but you can make your own---everything from platens to very small contact wheels