New fighter want leather armor

[Henrik Granlid]

John does have a very good point about the Musculata look though, it can be made in hardened leather, protects very well, goes rather closely in line with what she wants and you can even have big, spiffy roman shoulders over it in likewise hardened leather. The skirt-look is there, as are the greaves and forearms. Buying a barbute that is "Long and very greek looking" from an armourer who thinks it's a cool idea could well turn out to be a low-price investment for a psedo corinthian that passes the 10-ft distance.

And remember what John said, hardened leather protects very well, is relatively lightweight and sits nicely on top of padded protection. I vote to see if she's interested in the greco-roman style of heroes, generals and emperors before you go full-on "Nope." =)

EDIT: However, I can understand if you feel that you've done what you can for her, I urge to one last shot at making her more period, a roman amongst them barelycelts (or what you called them) would certainly be quite a nice suprise to maybe wake them out of their fantasy-armour-ways

But once she's done, she's done. Hand her off, in a nice way, to a marshal or similar to discuss further armour ideas and see what they can come up with for legality and protection.

[losthelm]

www.createforum.com/thegirlsclub/
Have her join and do a little research,
it may be better to help with universal basics that will work with most kits.
Gorget, elbow&knee cops, helm, gauntlets Demi/basket hit.
It should give you a starting point and be adjustable by adjusting bits and pieces.

[Katrine Klein]

If she really has her heart set on all leather armor, do it. So long as she meets the legal requirements for the game she is okay. Yeah it would be great to make her impervious to breakage or look more sca less fantasy from ten feet away, but if she is excited about it and it gets her into armor, why not? You both may have to make some compromises along the way. And if it turns out that her leather only armor is not as protective as she thought, then she may have to find that out the hard (and painful) way.

[InsaneIrish]

I always tell new people that if they want a historically based kit, I will bend over backwards to help them out. If they want fantasy, I can't help.
If she is dead set on Zena, and someone else is willing to help her make it, then so be it. As long as it passes inspection you can do nothing.

I would caution against "calibration down" for very long against ANY new fighter. It's fine to not just blow them up and move on during a fight, but hitting them "lighter" because they are small, or a girl, or new is a bad idea. It gives them a false sense of what it will be like "in the real world" of fighting. Plus, if they have borderline armor, then lighter hits may give them a false sense of protection.

All that being said, the Human body is very resilient. Using acceptable SCA Calibration, I doubt you could actually break ribs through even borderline armor. Unless you were really trying.

[Zeke]

it is probably nominally before "period", but have you tried looking up and showing her Steppe Nomadic culture gear? if i recall (don't remember where i heard it) the Sarmatians' younger women folk would fight alongside the men. I think there are Greek records of it, and how scandalizing said Greeks found it. if it's possible you might be able to find something that keeps you happy as to her safety, and historicity, and her wish for that (and pardon the term, but I lack a better one) "alpha female warrioress" look. I'll see if I can pull up anything about it, and post links in a bit.

[Zeke]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarmatians (yes I know, Wikipedia isnt the best of sources, but this article seems to actually, have cited sources in particular about mentioned records of their women fighting.
http://www.csen.org/WomenWarriors/Statu ... riors.html
http://archive.archaeology.org/9701/abs ... tians.html
These three looked pretty decent, there was more though, but these listed at least a few sources each.

[Sevastian]

I agree with Insane Irish. I don't want to see anyone injured or hit so hard they quit. If the fighter in question gets tagged with a full power hit where there isn't any armor it may make her rethink her armor.

[Iacobos]

I love Zeke's idea of a Sarmatian persona and I will keep that in mind since I doubt the young lady Caius mentioned in this post will be the last woman to ever join the SCA. As of right now Caius and I have each spoken with her about her kit and persona. I politely but gently informed her that Xena is a fantasy persona and that fantasy personas are not allowed in the SCA. She understood that and we began searching for a culture that used the type of materials for armor that she wanted to use. Mongolian seemed like a good idea at first but I later suggested the idea of a gladiatrix which she absolutely loved. Similar to modern day female pro wrestlers female gladiators projected an image of both sexiness and ferocity. This was the look she wanted and by using this persona I think we should be able to achieve it. Also, Caius was in no way rude to this woman. He was very frustrated by the intrusion of people that he and I both felt would interfere with her ability to make a kit that is both sexy and safe. The persona is right and now we are going to kick ass and take names.

[Fearghus Macildubh]

One of the fighters I met has absolutely badass leather corset/musculata body armour in a heroic Greco-Roman style. She's about the size of the woman in Caius's picture. It was hardened sole bend leather, she bought it from another woman who stopped fighting, I can't recall who the maker was.

[Iacobos]

I don't think a musculata would be accurate for a gladiator since they frequently wore very little armor on their chests. However, a well made leather muscle cuirass provides substantial protection. I made mine out of leather.

[jamesedgarson]

Gentles,

Ah, the fantasy newbie!..especially the enthusiastic fantasy newbie!!!!...she wants the armour out of leather, build it out of leather. Provided it's well padded underneath she'll be fine. Woman are tough creatures and it never ceases to amaze me just how tough they are,...now, I don't know this lady, but I admire the fact that being as petite as she is she wants to step upon the field. Tourney's are one thing, but standing your ground against a Tuchux charge in a bridge battle at Pennsic is something altogather different....however, she's not going to be standing in their way....and if she does, she may get hurt or she may hurt the 'Chux. Who knows. Last summer in the woods battle at Pennsic, our Queen Kayla ran circles around some big tough men, speared the heck out them and just kept going...this year at a smaller tourney, she won both the rapier AND armoured combat tourneys while competing in them SIMULTANEOUSLY!!!..for the second year in a row....she is Athena come to earth!! I have always believed, it is not the size of the dog in the fight,...it's the size of the fight in the dog.

I understand your hesitation, and I am NOT a fan of sink or swim, push them in the deep end of the pool mentality. It drives me round the bend to see someone using a new fighter as a walking pell just because they can....however, pain is a wonderful teacher. She'll learn.

You're a kind heart and respectful teacher to worry about her safety...now let her get the beats.

[Oddvarr]

IMHO, and echoing InsaneIrish, don't pull any punches or swing for the fences. Any new fighter should be educated on what to expect from their opponents.

Since she really wants to do leather and wield a great weapon, I would STRONGLY suggest at least two splints (hidden or otherwise) on the hardened leather vambraces. She will be taking a lot of blows to her wrists/forearms, especially against another great weapon wielder, and will appreciate top and bottom splints... bottom at the minimum.

I have some really thick vambraces from Viking Leather, and they were not enough by themselves. I had to add splints to mine along the back edge of my forearms. The tops actually double up the thickness when they are buckled, but some great sword shots still sting a bit. The bottom splints are helpful if one switches to sword and shield and takes a high guard position. (lots of shots to that area just learning to keep my elbow/arm tucked away)

Good Luck,

Oddvarr

[RoundTop]

I saw this kind of issue in person the other weekend. new female fighter came out and the person who brought her (male) was pulling, slowing down, and telegraphing his shots.

Had to scream at him a few times to get him out of the "hur dur I shouldn't hit a girl" mentality.

[Paul the Small]

Personal taste and historical accuracy could be argued all day long, but the question as I see it is, "Is it safe?" Looking at the sketch, it seems to me like she wants something like a roman lorica segmentata that is more female shaped. If it was done with heavy enough leather and sufficient overlap (maybe some water hardening) I don't see where it would be unsafe.

[Konstantin the Red]

A lorica segmentata is a helluva lot better in a material stiffer than waterhardened leather. For there, you want the hardened leather to be in big pieces -- I'd say a max of two pieces, as in breast & plackart/upper & lower backplate.

[Malek]

Perhaps this - let her make what leather armour she will.
Suggest a custom molded plastic kidney/rib protection to go under it. - it would allow her to keep the desired look and she will be better protected.

A crew I ran with had a couple of sets of leather char-aina armour. Not hardened and some had padding glued to the backside. I cut some barrel plastic to fit and riveted it to the backside, with an inch border to the leather. - kept the same look, but protection was MUCH better for torso shots. Also attached some leather-covered lacrosse shoulder cops to the assemblies - better than nothing, especially against this sinister guy that likes to throw slot shots.