The Armour Archive

The nest step is 80gr with a padded platen. The padding is 1/4" (6mm) of wool felt. The black layer is the usual graphite cloth.



Note, how the belt is wider than the padding of the platen. This is important. It keeps the edges of the belt from cutting as aggressively as the middle. If the edges were supported, they would gouge the work.



This pass will be perpendicular to the axis of the greaves, and I will work until no diagonal lines show. I can not over-stress the importance of changing directions with every pass. In the early passes, with the hard platen, the change of direction helped to create a "flatter" or more "plane" surface by minimizing the number of ways the belt could follow the hammer marks.

In this pass, with the padded platen, the direction change helps to tell me two important things....
--it tells what has been cut and what remains.
--it tells me exactly where I am cutting.

The first is important because you must cut until none of the previous marks are visible. The second is important because you must always know exactly where you are cutting. This becomes critical at the edges and crest lines. A second or two of uncertainly here can cause trouble by thinning out an edge or altering the course of the crest. There is only so much material available, and if you chase a crest line back and forth, you can end up with a thin spot or a "dotted line" for the work to part along. The first is an unacceptable hidden flaw. The second is a disaster.

I set up a light at the grinder so as to make the grind lines more visible. In general it is set so that the old lines will be reflect and be "white" and my new lines will not reflect, and thus will be "black". It does not much matter how the light is set, so long as it makes it obvious which lines are the new ones.

I have finished this pass on one of the four parts of the greaves this morning. It took about an hour and a half. I am pretty pleased with the results.



Most of the shaping of the crest line is done, but I may take a fine file to the funny spots and then return the work to the padded 80gr to remove the file marks.



With luck, I should be able to get the other three parts to this stage before I quit for the evening.

Mac

I mostly achieved the goal I set for yesterday, but ran out of patience and the ability to stand in front of the grinder when I got down to the ankle flairs. I need to have a different idea about how to deal with this area. The belt will not bend easily enough into the curve without its edges gouging. I will probably try using wavy edged discs, and see it that does it. Failing that, perhaps some sort of set-up wheel will do the trick.



Mac

The next course on the greaves will be with 220gr set-up wheels. More on that anon.

While waiting for my set-up wheels to dry, I started in on the sabatons. All of the nuts and bolts that have been through the heat treatment process are kept separate from the "good" ones. These "burnt" fasteners will usually serve a couple of tours of duty in the kiln before they get messed up enough that they have to be discarded. That red container they are in is the lower end of a one-pound propane can. These make nice parts bins because their bottoms are round.



The parts were given a pass over the grinding disc. I would normally go to 80gr on the belt sander now, but I get the sense that that may be a step backward here. I will see if I can get them nice and smooth with 180gr belts. If that works, it will save a couple of hours.



Mac

Well... it turned out that jumping from the grinding disc to a 180 belt did not work. The belt was not aggressive enough to level the facets from the disc. So, I did the usual thing, and used the 80gr belt first.

While everything was in pieces, and I was on a coarse belt anyway, I cut some short slots like we discussed way back on pages 7/8 . I'm not sure if they will be a significant improvement, but they really can't hurt.

Here is what the sabatons look like fully extended, and then rotated in and out.



Mac

So roughly you go from 80 to 120 to ..? What is the finest grain you use before going over to buffing?

And as always, great to see the progress and I can't wait for more updates!

Meanwhile, I have been furthering the surface work on the greaves. I'm trying to go directly from an 80gr belt with a padded platen to a 220gr set-up wheel. This is relatively slow going, but the results are nice, and I think it's saving time. It's certainly saving metal.

The wheels look like this. They are particle board with a felt face over a closed cell urethane layer.



Set-up wheels are not much used today, but they were a main stay of abrasive technology until the early 20th C. They require more fussing than modern abrasives, but they are very cheep to use. It must be close to ten years since I last messed with these wheels, but I am remembering some things, and learning some more.

Here is a greave front after the 220 set-up wheel.



I haven't tried going directly from here to black emery/sisal. I suspect I'll need something in between.

Mac

Judging from the pic, what's needed wouldn't be much. Those are looking great!

Well Mac, I find you grinding technique a bit wimpy.

You need something like this:

Chris Gilman wrote:Well Mac, I find you grinding technique a bit wimpy.

So do I... now

Mac

Mac wrote:

Chris Gilman wrote:Well Mac, I find you grinding technique a bit wimpy.

So do I... now

Mac

after seeing Owen Bush's modern version of that type of grinder, described as the "scrote grinder", I'm quite content with using a wimpy vertical linisher. The name alone makes me cross my legs....

Suzerain wrote:
after seeing Owen Bush's modern version of that type of grinder, described as the "scrote grinder", I'm quite content with using a wimpy vertical linisher. The name alone makes me cross my legs....

Have you got a link to that? Doing the obvious search has not yielded up anything about grinders.

I would like to some day build a big wheel like the guys in the Mendel hausbuch use. It would be nice to do it before I was a old is this guy.



Mac

Mac wrote: Have you got a link to that? Doing the obvious search has not yielded up anything about grinders.

I apologise for your now-impure browsing history, and the brain bleach you probably need.

I'll see if I can extract the video he made of his rather terrifying contraption, and get it to you, unfortunately it was on farcebook.

No apologies are necessary. That which does not kill us makes us stronger.... and since I survived the search, I am in your dept for the fortitude it must surely have imparted.

I look forward to seeing the video.

Mac

My google fu is strong

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlO-fo_xLRU

There's some scary knife grinding in here as will https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0BtDfJCNL8

Mac

There are some good videos in this AAF thread.

http://www.armsandarmourforum.com/forum ... msearch__1

That was a good discussion, which I had more or less forgotten about. But, ya' know... I still can get that video that Andrew Bodley linked to to run.... http://www.schwertbruecken.de/english/starte.htm

Mac

Mac wrote:That was a good discussion, which I had more or less forgotten about. But, ya' know... I still can get that video that Andrew Bodley linked to to run.... http://www.schwertbruecken.de/english/starte.htm

Mac

I dug around in the website's source code and figured out the location of the WMV video file.
It is now on my Google Drive here:
Handwerksolingvideo.wmv

Suzerain wrote:

Mac wrote:

Chris Gilman wrote:Well Mac, I find you grinding technique a bit wimpy.

So do I... now

Mac

after seeing Owen Bush's modern version of that type of grinder, described as the "scrote grinder", I'm quite content with using a wimpy vertical linisher. The name alone makes me cross my legs....

I think this link to his video might work:
https://www.facebook.com/owen.bush.73/v ... 704722323/

Tom B. wrote:

I dug around in the website's source code and figured out the location of the WMV video file.
It is now on my Google Drive here:
Handwerksolingvideo.wmv

Thank you, Tom!

I really dig those wooden (?) leg thingies that grinder is wearing. I guess they lock into those spatter covered wooden (?) shoes with the brackets on to that we see earlier in the film.

It's a big problem in grinding anything that one has to find ways to use bigger muscles than the ones in the arms to do the work. I am currently having trouble with tendinitis at the insertions of my biceps from holding the work up to the tool.

Mac

Tom B. wrote:
I think this link to his video might work:
https://www.facebook.com/owen.bush.73/v ... 704722323/

Yeow! That thing sounds like a jet engine! I wonder if it might not be better to slow it down a bit.

Mac

I've got the sabatons pretty much polished.



The greaves are taking more time, and while I am waiting for some belts to come in the mail, I have begun turning my attention to the buckles and strap mounts.

The cuisse straps are pretty wide, and I will be making buckles to take 1" (25mm) straps. We can see here that the straps are held in place with decorative plates. The sculptor has gone a bit overboard with the rivets, but I will use only two.



Our sculptor has also put the rivets for the tasset straps too close to the edges of the leather. I'd like to use two rivets, to keep the straps from twisting, but these straps are about 3/4" (19mm), and that's just too narrow for two.



What I have decided to do it to make the straps taper from 1" at the top to 3/4" where the buckle is. That will let me use the same size of mounting plates as on the cuisse straps. I'll use those for the two front tassets, and the butt tasset. Since the side tassets are attached to both the front and back skirts, and their spacing may vary, I will use only one rivet to attach them. That will allow the straps to pivot a bit and to hang without kinking.

The mounting plates have three of their sides turned down to embrace the leather. These will be made or .035" stock....



....shaped over a mandrel clamped in the big vise.



Hammering the edge down, and moving the work from corner to corner of the vise does the trick.



The resulting turn-down is oversized and wavy, so they get trimmed on the bench grinder and then smoothed on an 80gr disc.



A few taps on the inside with a hammer gets the outer surface smooth enough for grinding.



Once I had the process working smoothly, I cut some more and shaped them up as well. I figure I need a total of eight, so I made ten. If I don't screw any of them up, I can pick the best eight and put the others in a drawer in case I need them some day.



Here they are, waiting for me to figure out where the holes will go.



Mac

I once worked on a 'Maximilian' harness with the 'tasset-legs' whose original leathering holes (that hadn't been blown out to take giganthroid modern rivets) were 3/32" diameter. You could always take some nails that shank size and form the heads into domes. I think they'd hold; I use them on my own armour. Or maybe Mr. Pacher thought narrow straps looked better.

James Arlen Gillaspie wrote:I once worked on a 'Maximilian' harness with the 'tasset-legs' whose original leathering holes (that hadn't been blown out to take giganthroid modern rivets) were 3/32" diameter. You could always take some nails that shank size and form the heads into domes. I think they'd hold; I use them on my own armour. Or maybe Mr. Pacher thought narrow straps looked better.

Mac, or James., If you happened to want 3/32nd rivets, with the proper low, flat mushroom heads ( =) that sort of shape, rather than =D if that makes any sense! ) I have a supplier in the UK, "Sapphire products", that does them. So I just gave them a quick call to make sure they still have them in stock, and they've got them in 1/4 inch or 5/8ths shank length. They're not keen on shipping to the US, but I'd be happy to arrange an order and send it on you you.

James Arlen Gillaspie wrote:I once worked on a 'Maximilian' harness with the 'tasset-legs' whose original leathering holes (that hadn't been blown out to take giganthroid modern rivets) were 3/32" diameter. You could always take some nails that shank size and form the heads into domes. I think they'd hold; I use them on my own armour. Or maybe Mr. Pacher thought narrow straps looked better.

I think the strap widths look reasonable on the statue, but the rivets are very close to the edges of the leather. My suspicion is that the sculptor had a sort of feel for the proportion of the straps, but just did not consider the structural realities of the rivets.

Smaller rivets might be a good compromise, but I don't think I am going to "go there" for this project.

Mac

Suzerain wrote:
Mac, or James., If you happened to want 3/32nd rivets, with the proper low, flat mushroom heads ( =) that sort of shape, rather than =D if that makes any sense! ) I have a supplier in the UK, "Sapphire products", that does them. So I just gave them a quick call to make sure they still have them in stock, and they've got them in 1/4 inch or 5/8ths shank length. They're not keen on shipping to the US, but I'd be happy to arrange an order and send it on you you.

That sounds intriguing.... not for this project, because I already have my holes punched..... but perhaps for something in the future.

Can you post a pic to show what they look like?

Thanks,
Mac

here you go:

http://elmslie.co.uk/projects/IMG_0130.jpg

three different sizes I've got sitting around:

3/32nd, 1/8th, and 5/32nd.

at the top are standard "round head" rivets,

below them are what they refer to as "mushroom head" - lower and flatter profile, which are the ones I use more often.

the heads for the mushroom heads ones are as follows:
3/32nd shank = 7/32nds approx (0.208 / 5.29mm) head dia.
1/8th shank = 7/64ths (0.2765 / 7.02mm) head dia.
5/32nds shank = 23/64 (0.351 / 8.95mm ) head dia.
I've also put a 120 degree countersunk 3/32nd in at lower left - they do those in all sizes too, and to the far right, a round and a mushroom head from on top to give a better sense of the curvature. I've also picked that mushroom head out as you can see a defect in the finish; quite a lot of the 3/32nd ones have that, a sort of ripple in the metal that's a bit strange, probably an artefact of forming the head - its not too deep, a few hundredths of a millimetre at most - 10 seconds with a bit of P800 emery paper was enough to remove the ripple mark entirely, but I felt it should be noted.

http://sapphireproducts.co.uk/bs641.htm is their web page showing the full range of types. They also do them in mild steel, stainless steel (blasphemy!) copper, brass, aluminium and its alloys, monel (nickel copper alloy), phosphor bronze and nickel silver.

They've also said to me before that they would do them in silver if I supplied the silver, at a minimum batch of 1000.... I'm still tempted to do that for seax-making and sell them in packs of 25...

Mmmm, those mushroom heads... We'll have to set something up.

On this side of the pond these guys have a similar range of rivets. i don't know if they'll do silver though.
http://www.rivetsinstock.com/rivets/solid-rivets.html

Yesterday evening, I started in on the large buckles. There will be two for the cuisses, and two for the shoulder straps.

This is a selection of stuff from my buckle drawers. There are buckles in various stages as well as templates.



These days, I mostly make my templates out of pallet strapping. They hold up better than the cardboard ones, and don't really take much longer to make. This is a pic of the template I made for these buckles along with the prototype. I am getting a bit ahead of myself here, but I don't always take all the pics I should.



I got some more pics this morning when I started the other three. Here is how I mark the hole locations on the stock. I find that a 3/32" hole in the template works well with a center punch. It's not as accurate as a real "transfer punch", but it's close enough.



After deepening the marks, we go to the RW 17.



I like to punch the outside holes first, rather than "nibbling" along.



Punching out the middles last loads the punch symmetrically.


I like to use the jigsaw to part the blanks from the stock.



Accurate layout of the template pays off.



Here are the blanks sitting next to yesterday's prototype.



Here they are after some work with the files and grinder. Except for the prototype, they are still square in section. Note, that the two which are to be for the shoulder straps have been filed up with one of the loops straight. This is for the rollers.



It looks like I have ended up just a bit shy of my 1" target.... They are more like 15/16", or maybe 31/32". I may try to eek out a bit more room, but I will probably just let them be as they are.

The next step will be to contour the buckles and make them nice and smooth.

Mac

I got them filed to this stage before dinner today. It's always a surprise how much skinnier they look when you file off the corners.



The plan is to get them polished before making the mounting plates and tongues.

I measured the buckles again, but this time I did not trust the end of the ruler. That was the problem. The printing is a bit off on the ruler. In any case, they are smack on at 1".

Mac

I may have missed it - how thick is the stock for these buckles?

I'll measure the stock and report, but I think it's a bit over .100".

To do that, I am going to have to shovel a path the the shop..... but I'll need to do that anyway. We have about 8 inches of snow on the ground, and it's still coming down. They say it will taper off sometime tonight. I really wish I had taken my own advise, and bought a used snow blower last summer. I'm getting too old for this crap, and I hate to waste what left of my elbows on shoveling snow.

An important thing with buckles is that the center bar end up more or less round. Otherwise, the tongue does not move smoothly on the bar, and the buckle does not move well in its mount. To make that happen, you have to start with something sort of thick. A couple of the buckles in that picture of "stuff from my buckle drawers" were made on stuff that was too thin for the size of the buckle, and they really don't work very well.

Mac

Are you using 1050 or regular mild for the buckles?

The are just mild steel, but if I had not found a convenient piece of that in my stock rack I would have cut them in 1050. I suppose that hardened and tempered buckles would take a better polish, but I'm not going to worry about it. Besides, I already have my 3/4" buckles blanked out in mild. I had them laser-cut years ago, and they have been sitting in a plastic bag, awaiting deployment..... More on those in a couple of days, I think.

Mac