The Armour Archive

Ckanite wrote:Mac, even though I could reasonably imagine the details as your explained them and looking at your machines, THESE were the details and shots I was looking for! They really help clear up a few ideas I had about finishing. Thank you!

Glad that helps! The pics that show the work applied to the machine and the "grinder's eye" pics are a bit harder to get, but if folks like 'em, I'll try to do it more often.

Mac

YES! I know that it's hard. I've been trying to get shots like that for my YouTube channel. Though, it shows what the angle of attack should look like through the perspective of the person doing the work and that can sometimes mean the success of failure of someone new trying the same technique.

Ckanite wrote:Mac, even though I could reasonably imagine the details as your explained them and looking at your machines, THESE were the details and shots I was looking for! They really help clear up a few ideas I had about finishing. Thank you!

I'll second that - I hadn't thought to mount this type of pad on my bench grinder (which is obvious in retrospect).

For the fine detail work in the "cusps" of flutes you may want to consider jewelers disks and a foredom (or Dremel) flex-shaft tool. These discs are about 1" in diameter and 1/8" thick, and the "Coarse" ones are about 220grit - but because they are solid, they cut where you put them and don't blend.

Foredom tools are also used by dentists, and the foot pedal speed control makes a huge difference in the ability to control your work, especially at weird angles where one hand is needed to support the work.

Scott

I got the vambraces polished today. It was basically the same old procedure as for the pauldrons.



Mac

Oh, oh! 2000th post in this thread! What a journey!

Golly! Is that a record breaker?

Mac

So.... Here's an issue that needs settling. How shall I finish the besegews?



Just as an experiment, I gave them a brisk tour on a wire wheel to see how they looked.... and while they are nice enough at arm's length.....



...they're a bit rough when you're right up close to them.



The question is whether to clean off all the tool marks, or to say "Hey, it's repoussé. That's just how repoussé looks". One can make an argument either way, but there's no middle ground. If I start in with abrasives, I am committed to that course and have to follow it through to the end. I figure it will be about two days or so of work to get them smooth. It will require a handful of specialized little sanding blocks and a promise of strong drink at the end of each day.

Mac

If you don't use abrasives, they will be eye-catching ("Hey, it's repoussé. That's just how repoussé looks" ) compared to the rest of the suit.

Ultimately, it will depend on how the whole kit looks as a whole.

Mac wrote:So.... Here's an issue that needs settling. How shall I finish the besegews?

One can make an argument either way, but there's no middle ground. If I start in with abrasives, I am committed to that course and have to follow it through to the end. I figure it will be about two days or so of work to get them smooth. It will require a handful of specialized little sanding blocks and a promise of strong drink at the end of each day.

Mac

But polished they will be drop dead gorgeous, and (another) inspiration to the rest of us. I'm interested in seeing how you handle that operation, but I'm not the one who has to do the work.

Scott

What was your AP's decision on gilding the besagues?
If it is a yes, then I think they would look better smooth.

There is no plan to gild the bessagews, but I have dropped the AP a note and asked him to state his preference about the finish.

Mac

Personally, I think if you were able to polish everything but the very bottom of the valleys, that would look best. It would give it a nice visual pop. On the other hand, it they are not polished up to the same degree as the rest of the metal, they'll stick out like a sore thumb. Hold them up next to the rest of the plate and take three steps back, now ten. Then show us.

My August Patron is also of two minds about the tool marks, but I see now that I really must clean them up. A couple of days work is really nothing over the length of the project.

I'll grab the camera and head into the shop as soon as I've had my breakfast and finished my first cup of coffee. It's relatively warm today, and the shop should heat up more rapidly than it did during our recent cold snap.

Mac

Warm shops are always so much nicer than hot shops!!

The shop I "grew up in" was heated by the badly insulated 10" steam pipes in the sub basement below. In the dead of winter, it would sometimes get to where the tools were below skin temperature. Mostly, though, it was about 80° or so, and I wore shorts all the time. In the summer, it was pretty much unspeakably hot. Looking back, I don't know how I survived the summers.

My new shop has a couple of electric heaters, and this winter I have not let it get below about 55°f. In the day, I've been turning the heaters up to 75°, and that mostly keeps things about 60°. I fantasize about a heated floor, but that's never going to happen.

Mac

Clean and gild the besegews!! Dooo iiiit!

I started in with a fiber backed disc in the dremmel tool. It's a "fine" one; about 180gr or 220gr, I think.....



....and got all the places I could reach with it.



It's OK with the valleys, but not so good on the rounded hollows. The edge was too inclined to gauge.

Out of a sort of desperation, I chucked up a moated wheel; one of these guys, I think https://www.amazon.com/Dremel-85422-Sil ... B00004UDKE and dressed the edge off round.



I used that to go back over the hollows, and am much happier with the results. The cut is fine and the edges are well behaved. It's like using one of my carefully dressed angle grinder wheels, but in miniature. What's important here, though, is that it will get out the ill advised marks I put in with the disc. I should have started with this instead of the disc. That's a mistake that will cost me a couple of hours, but it will be alright in the end.



The difference between the two tools is not photographing well. I don't know if it's just a mater of getting the light right, or if it's one of those things that you need two eyes to see.

Mac

I switched over to this wheel to get some of the places where the other one would not go. What I really want is a small wheel with a flat face and an undercut back, but this is the closest thing I had, and the selection at the Home Despot was miserable.



The convex areas were ground with 80gr on a small backing pad. This worked OK, but something even smaller, but not so stiff as the fiber backed discs I started with would be nice.



Here is what I have so far.



I'm starting to run out of clever ideas, and my right elbow hurts from holding the work. It's almost like it remembers the besegews from years ago. It's probably time to give it a bit of a rest.

I used to have some 1/2" PSA discs in a couple of grits, but the glue has gone south, and the little backing pad on the 1/8" shank rotted. Perhaps I need to score fresh examples of those things to move on. If that's the case, it will be a couple of days before I return to this task.

Mac

Sounds like you might need a couple of days off anyway. Don't hurt yourself! Looking great!

I may well do that. Everything hurts and I think I'm getting a cold.

The good folks at "Supergrit" will be sending me some 1/2" and 1" PSA discs as well as mandrel/pads for same. They are pretty quick, so those will probably be here by Monday.

Mac

Mac wrote:I may well do that. Everything hurts and I think I'm getting a cold.

The good folks at "Supergrit" will be sending me some 1/2" and 1" PSA discs as well as mandrel/pads for same. They are pretty quick, so those will probably be here by Monday.

Mac

Supergrit does look like they have a nice selection of items. Just a quick look through and now there is a long list of things I need.

Mac wrote: They are pretty quick, so those will probably be here by Monday.

Maybe not - Monday is a federal holiday Another day to heal and rest!

Good point! Those guys are pretty close, though. If they get my stuff in the mail today, I might have it on Saturday.

Speaking of Saturday. If I'm not actually getting a cold (the jury is still out) I will be going to a convention of model engineers in Lebanon PA http://www.cabinfeverexpo.com/ Is anyone else going?

Mac

I had a look at the helmet today and compared it to other helmets in my page of suitable helmets. https://www.pinterest.com/macs_shop/sallets/

By projecting the line of the eye slit back and comparing that line to the lower edge of the tails, I saw that mine was definitely too deep. So, I cut some off.



Here's the side view, before and after the trim.....



...and a 3/4 tail view of the same.




It's a definite improvement. When I tip it back to look out under the visor, it doesn't hit my shoulders nearly so soon. By the time it's hemmed it should be just about right.

What I had in mind originally was something like this.



What I have move toward is something more like this.



or this.



While the first one looks uber kool, you really need a sort of long neck or low shoulders to be comfortable in it if you think you are ever going to tip it back.

Mac

I'm back from the model engineer's convention with some goodies; including 5 lathe collets (2 of which are NOS), dremel stuff, a file, lathe tool bits, some acid brushes, a 6 pack of #51 drill bits, and a bulb blower. I wish I had access to markets like this more often.



Mac

Mac, I know this is slightly off topic. I remember you saying that you had an Atlas lathe... do you do your milling on there as well (considering you bought collets)? I have an old Van Norman that came with collets, I would be highly interested to see your milling setup if you are doing it with the Atlas.

For milling, you really want to hold the cutters in adapters like these. They come in different internal diameters, and a set screw bears against the flat of the milling tool shank. The drawbar keeps them up tight in the taper of the arbor. This is a pic I just snagged off the web... my drawbar is not a nice as this one.



By contrast, collets make for accurate concentricity, and replacability of work, but you need a lot of them to have any chance of having the one you need.

Mac

The stuff from Supergrit arrived on Saturday, so I was able to get back to this on Sunday.

I'm now two days into cleaning up the besegews, and they are starting to look better. Somehow, I never had exactly what I needed, and I ended up using a variety of things. Some of them were in my big grinder and others in the dremel tool. The thing that's in the collet in the pic is a 1/8 mandrel with a disc cut out of an used 80gr hook and loop pad. It's backed by a felt buff and a small washer behind that. I can get four of these out of a previously used 5" pad. They're good for one or two of the depressed petals if the roses before they are too dull to cut. I've been through a lot of these and expect to use a few more before I'm done. The 80gr gets followed up by the same thing in 180gr.

The 1" hook and loop pad we see over on the left would be pretty good if the discs would stay on it. Unfortunately, they don't.



In the middle of it all, something went weird with my dremel tool speed control. It ceased to do anything but full speed. I took it apart and cleaned off the slider contacts with acetone. I works again, but it's not exactly right. It man be time to replace the tool.

The surfaces are mostly smooth, but there are still pockets that need to be ground out or they will look bad when they're polished.



Mac

WOW! Mac, those are starting to look NICE!

Ckanite wrote:WOW! Mac, those are starting to look NICE!

Thanks!

Mac

The prediction of "two days" has turned out to be more like three, but as these things go, that's not a bad guess.



I may go back a work on a couple of spots, but in general, the finish looks OK.



Tomorrow I will return to the helmet. I may or may not trim a bit more off the tail before I hem it. We'll see how I feel about it in the morning.

Mac

Wow...those look incredible. Like liquid excellence!

Fantastic! The finish is great. If there are any small blemishes remaining, I think I'd be tempted to leave them. Gives it a more "period look".

Mac wrote:Tomorrow I will return to the helmet. I may or may not trim a bit more off the tail before I hem it. We'll see how I feel about it in the morning.

The besagews look wonderful! Regarding the sallet, will the edges of the current metal be rolled? When you showed the photos of the original helmets that are serving as your new models alongside the material you've already removed, I have to admit my instinctive thought was "he cut too much." Perhaps the angle of your photos is making it look like that? If not, I can't imagine you'd need to cut any more off, especially if you're going to roll those edges! The current silhouette looks very nice for a "short" tail.

-Gerhard

Would you do us a favor and show us off these gorgeous pieces together with the rest of the already polished armor? I for my would love to see them in the same lighting as the harness and shoulders, showing off how much the work in these two pieces makes them look just right for them.