The Armour Archive

Oh, and he does have some ideas for some parts that would help him have a "light" armour to go with his latest "heavy" one... I am sure he would love to talk to Mac about those.....

Wade

It's not really so much that I don't know what to do as I don't know what not to do. I'll probably continue to make armor, but not like I used to. This is an opportunity for me to make a break with the old ideas of taking orders and having a backlog. I want to do projects that interest me, when they interest me, and not years later. I need a paradigm change. Meanwhile, I will continue to not commit to anything.

Mac

Mac wrote: Meanwhile, I will continue to not commit to anything.

Mac

As long as you do not commit to do nothing!


This is a big long term monkey you are getting off your back. Enjoy that, first.

Then think about where you point your nose. The space to pick what you want to do and when is somewhere we all would like to be at. I look forward to seeing (and learning from) what you tackle next- but no pressure.

Much of today was spent making new shoulder buckles. About a year ago, I made the parts for some 1" (25mm) buckles which I expected to mount on straps attached to the backplate.



Then, for reasons I can't remember, I decided that I was going to put the buckles on the breastplate instead. I quickly cobbled these 3/4" (19mm) buckles together and mounted them up for the fitting. They are narrower than I wanted, but they worked OK. I figured that I would replace them when the time came.



Today was the day to replace them. The new ones will take a 1" strap, and are stylistically related to the other buckles on the armor. I will gild them and mount them up this evening. I'm pretty sure I left enough room for them under the bevor. We'll see.



Mac

Here is where we discussed those buckles before

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=169445&p=2761362&#p2761362

I've been following this from the very beginning without saying much, but damn, this is gorgeous stuff! Thank you for posting in so much detail, Mac - there's a heck of a lot to learn. And to ogle

Mac, fabulous stuff, makes me want to just throw in the towel and go back to IT.

The details and knowledge you're passing on in this thread is wonderful, thankyou so much for enriching our community.

...the inevitable postpartum depression that accompanies the end of all big projects.

To take the edge off that depression, I suggest we should throw a big keg party to celebrate the completion of your project.

I'll bring the absinthe...

-Jeremy

Jeremy.G wrote:

...the inevitable postpartum depression that accompanies the end of all big projects.

To take the edge off that depression, I suggest we should throw a big keg party to celebrate the completion of your project.

I'll bring the absinthe...

-Jeremy

I'll be there! Doubly so if there's absinthe! I'll bring some whiskey!

I hope that the harness has not been shipped out before I get to Pa. in October. I would love to see the completed piece in person. Exquisite.

mrkealey wrote:I hope that the harness has not been shipped out before I get to Pa. in October. I would love to see the completed piece in person. Exquisite.

Considering the August Patron mentioned a photo shoot in England sometime during the summer, I think you'll be out of luck!

I hope 'mrkealey' will understand if I say that I HOPE he will be out of luck! But there is still a fair bit to do even now, so I am not counting my chickens just yet.

I believe the armor will be done before the end of March.

Mac

Say Mac, maybe you addressed this before (and you'll have to forgive me, but there are 64 pages to this thread to possibly look through), but I'm curious if there was a reason you didn't do the poleyns in latten, as they appear to be on the statue.

And thank you ever so kindly for taking the time to document your many processes, tools and progress for us all; you have bestowed upon us a tremendous gift.

I'm afraid that's my fault.

Where 'black' armour is depicted, it often seems to be almost universally black. I'm afraid my attempts at adding images have ended in failure, so unfortunately it is not easy to describe exactly what I mean, but the paintings of St. George and the Dragon by Vittore Carpaccio would be examples. Anyway, I told Mac from the start that I didn't want any of the major elements to be given a gold or gold-like finish.

I started assembly of the cuirasse today. Here is the upper back plate with the neck plate and shoulder straps riveted in place....



....likewise, the two parts of the breast and the shoulder strap buckles.



The next thing will be the cullet. I have bolted the parts together temporarily to lay out the internal leathers. It's important to make sure that they are a bit longer than needed. It's better to waste an inch of leather than to be 1/4" short at the end of the assembly and have kludge something.



I like to draw lines around the leathers and extend the sides up a bit to give myself some reference lines when riveting the leather onto whichever lame it starts on. This particular leather begins on lame 3, so I have made lines to make sure the angle is right. That's more important wide leathers with more than one rivet.



These are the three leathers that attach to the waist lame.



Here, I have riveted the lowest back lame to the top of the waist lame.



Next, I attached the waist belt.



The cullet lames are all going to follow the same basic assembly sequence. Fist, I bolt the lame on and get it situated properly. Note how the rivets that hold the internal leathers to the waist lame show through the construction holes in the upper edge of the first cullet lame. That's what we want to see.



With the lame lined up properly, I mark the locations of the rivets in the leathers at the lower edge.



I will then make holes for the rivets at the locations of the marks.



At this point, I got distracted by trying to imagine how best to attach the mail fringe (It goes on the next lame) and bolted the rest of the skirts together and put the cuirasse up on the stand. I'll return to the assemble description tomorrow.

Mac

The reason I have been a bit quiet lately was that on Thursday and Friday I was at a ballistic testing lab in Maryland, helping Jonathan Tavares and Dirk Beiding with a project they are doing. A crew of photographers took high quality footage of high quality repro armor being shot with high quality repro guns. The main event was Jeff Wasson's bloomery-steel Greenwich cuirasse vs. a musket at close range. I can say nothing about the results till the Nova special airs.

Mac

Mac wrote:The reason I have been a bit quiet lately was that on Thursday and Friday I was at a ballistic testing lab in Maryland, helping Jonathan Tavares and Dirk Beiding with a project they are doing. A crew of photographers took high quality footage of high quality repro armor being shot with high quality repro guns. The main event was Jeff Wasson's bloomery-steel Greenwich cuirasse vs. a musket at close range. I can say nothing about the results till the Nova special airs.

Mac

Very cool! A subject of interest for sure. It is neat to get an understanding of what they were actually using.
I read with fascination an account of original Graz original fire arms tested against original 16th century breast plates back in the eighties. Some things learned about lethality at distances. And comparisons to modern calibers. The book is at work. I'll cite it later.

No NOVA back then. Do you know when it airs?

Johann ColdIron wrote: No NOVA back then. Do you know when it airs?

I don't know, but I have just inquired of someone who should. I'll report back with a date when I know it.

Mac

Johann ColdIron wrote: I read with fascination an account of original Graz original fire arms tested against original 16th century breast plates back in the eighties. Some things learned about lethality at distances. And comparisons to modern calibers. The book is at work. I'll cite it later.

I had never heard about this before. I look forward to the citation!

Mac

That's good because I just thought you were screwin off!

bartholomew wrote:That's good because I just thought you were screwin off!

It was screwin' off. But I was screwin' off in the name of Science.

Mac

Usually when a magician reveals his secrets the 'awe' goes away. With Mac the opposite is true for me, the 'awe' factor has been going up since the thread opened. As the project nears completion the on-going peeks behind the curtain has deepened the appreciation of this magic.

What's nova? A documentary? A TV network?

It's science (US Public Broadcasting Science)
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/

Scott

Picking up where I left off yesterday... I temporarily assembled the cuirasse so that I could think about the mail skirt that will be attached to the fauld and cullet.



Having done that, I returned to assembling the cullet.

This blurry pic shows the first lame installed and the holes punches in the leathers for the nest lame. It's important to remember to plug the assembly holes before installing the pivot rivets and leathers.



This gives some impression of how short the shanks on the plug rivets get cut.



In fact, as we can see from this sequence, I should really have tried to cut the even shorter. There is a bit more rivet shank sticking up here than will fit comfortably in the countersink. When that happens, I sometimes cut the excess off with a dremmel wheel and then give it a few more taps to smooth it out. I probably did that with this one, but I can't remember.



Here is the place where lame 2 of the fauld and lame 2 of the cullet come together. I wish I had been more conscientious here about getting the underlaps to line up from front to back. The fauld and cullet were made in two campaigns, and somehow I did not get this part right. The holes on the lower edge are for riveting on a lining strip to which the mail skirt will be sewn. The discontinuity means that I will have to make the strips be different widths so that the mail will end up at the same height across the transition.



The lining strip for the cullet is pretty straightforward. I cut a 3/4" strip and made the rivets be just above its center.



Note how I have some of the holes open. These will be for the internal leathers and the pivots.



Before I make the lining strip for the fauld lame, I have laid out the internal leathers. The fauld is a lot heavier and stiffer than the cullet, and I have elected to use fewer leathers and to not start them on the breastplate flange.



Lame 2 of the cullet has its lining strip and is temporarily installed.



Likewise, lame 2 of the fauld has its strip, and is bolted in place.



The transition has been cut so as to be smooth and to give a nice foundation for the mail skirt.



I had originally intended the mail skirt to be worn as a right against the body and to be supported on a waist band. It hurt a bit to have to chop it up, but I think the result will be more convenient to wear and a few ounces lighter as well.



More on the mail tomorrow.

Mac

Mac: I noticed that someone was also interested in your method of gilding the different parts, I too had the same interest. Any way to show how you used a pen to produce the results you did? Also the problem of scratching the finish, how do, or do not deal with that as well?

bartholomew wrote:Mac: I noticed that someone was also interested in your method of gilding the different parts, I too had the same interest. Any way to show how you used a pen to produce the results you did?

I'll do something on the gilding in a bit. My technology is in a state of flux at the moment.

bartholomew wrote: Also the problem of scratching the finish, how do, or do not deal with that as well?

The black oxide is pretty hard. Black emery on a sisal buff will not remove it... or at least not in any practical way. In use, the places where the plates rub will scratch the oxide, but that's just how it is. I will see if the guys at Metlab have a favorite touch up product.

Mac

Magic Marker!

I think I finally have mail skirt divided properly. Last night I had 12 dags in back and 13 in front. That put an even number in back, which is what the statue has. Unfortunately, it did not make my lengths come out properly. This morning I moved one of the dags (and the diagonal patch of mail above it) from the front to the back.

The lining strips of the front and back are 23 1/2" and 30", respectively. That accords well with the "patted down" lengths of the two skirt halves. The one for the front has 66 rings and the one for the back has 88 rings. If I space the sewing holes at 9mm it should come out OK. As a check, I did the math, and compared the metric results against the inch lengths on my tailor's tape... and to check all that, I just ran the numbers through a calculator and an online converter. It should not take much fudging to get the lengths of mail to match up with the lengths of the leather strips.



The diagonal ends will come together under the side tassets and be fastened with buckles. I'd like to install the fastenings now, but I will wait until the mail is sewn on to see if I need to modify the ends at all.

I'll start sewing those on right after lunch.

Mac

bartholomew wrote:Magic Marker!

Stranger things that that have worked. I have little test piece left over from Toby's armor. I'll scratch it and see.

Mac

Love this thread - the work is truly beautiful!
How is the hardening (if any) affected by the bluening process? I suppose the steel is heated when blued? I am a novice when it comes to heat treating - is the bluening temperature to low to alter the hardening?

Cheers,
Ed

This particular black oxide process happens at 280°F (or so they tell me). That's not nearly hot enough to harm the heat treating, which has already been to 750°F in the tempering.

Mac

Mac wrote: If I space the sewing holes at 9mm it should come out OK.

I was hoping that once I had the objects laid out in front of me, I would have a better idea than trying to step out 9mm intervals and hope that I ended up with the right number of holes.

It turns out that I could just lay the mail up against the lame and pat it down a bit and "Bob's yer' uncle".



I just made a mark on the leather at every ring. Are the marks evenly spaced? No, but they're even enough. Is there the correct number of marks? Definitely. This is really the better way of doing this. It also mortifies my inner nerd, and that's important.



Having sewn both skirt pieces on, I reassembled the armor a bit to see how it worked. The two ends of the mail are secured by a bolt for now, just to see how it's hangin'.



On the "downhill" side of the armor (remember that the torso is tipped on the stand so it looks more like St. F.) there is a bit of gapping, but it will be covered by the side tasset.



I couldn't resist bolting on a few more parts to see how is looked. The skirt on the statue is a bit straighter across in the back, where mine dips down a bit. Overall, though, it looks pretty good.





I need to turn my attention to making the buckles before I can assemble any more for real. If will be easier to install the buckles while I can still get the mail over to the anvil.

Mac

for this sort of thing I have been pretty happy with hooks instead of buckles