The Armour Archive

It seems to me that dyeing the lining strips of the gauntlet fingers to match the blackened steel, would have the effect of making the fingers look fatter and less crisply defined. The lighter color of the leather allows the finger lames to appear as slender and refined as they can, since the leather will become neutral background color from any distance.

To dye buff is a crime! It is grand as it is, no point in messing with is.

The contrast also brings out the craftmanship. A lesser armourer might benefit from hiding things but Macs work is better the more it can be seen.

Inspiring as usual. Really wish I had 1% of your skill and experience. Just fantastic. Those fingers looks amazing.

RPM

Xtracted wrote:To dye buff is a crime! It is grand as it is, no point in messing with is.

Just to be clear... There's no buff leather involved here. I'm not sure what the tannage is on the gloves, but all the rest of the leather is some sort of chrome tan or another.

Mac

It was finally time to trim the glove cuffs to length and hem them. It would have been nice to have done this earlier, before they had fingers sewn on, but I did not know how much to trim till the lengths were established. This is one of those things that would not be a problem if one made the same style of gauntlet all the time.

In the end, I decided that I would remove 1 3/4" and then sew in a narrow hem like the one that the manufacturer had used.



My antique Singer is set up to sew with heavy thread, and the modern Chinese crank made the job easy. It's hard to get enough "omph" with the treadle to sew leather, and it's tedious to pull the balance wheel over by hand. I'd like to get an antique crank to replace this one, but they are a bit expensive.



That done, it was time to finally rivet the gauntlets together. I did the thumbs first...



... then the thumb side of the knuckle plate....



... and finally the little finger side of the knuckle.



Now I can sew the rest of the lining leathers to the gloves.





Mac

Man oh man, are those beautiful! Just looking at them made my pulse jump. I very much like the use of leather tabs to secure the palm, rather than a leather strap across it.

It sure looked buffish i color Mac.

Could you please show some close ups of how it was stitched to the gloves? I am curious how you run the stitches to make it look and work smoothly.

Keegan Ingrassia wrote: I very much like the use of leather tabs to secure the palm, rather than a leather strap across it.

Tabs like that are pretty much the normal thing with gauntlets. The rule of thumb seems to be that if the glove is a fixed part of the gauntlet, it's sewn to tabs or strips and there are no straps across the palm. The earlier sorts of gauntlets may have had the gloves riveted directly... it's hare to tell sometimes.

The exceptions to the rule are the mid 15th C. mittens that appear not to have had any gloves. These appear in (usually) German art, and are sometimes worn over bare hands.

Like everybody... I put palm straps on my gauntlets when I first started out. In a bit I noticed that real gauntlets pretty much did without them. I tried that, and found that it not only worked, but it was more comfortable than straps ever were. I have not looked back.

Mac

Xtracted wrote:It sure looked buffish i color Mac.

I chose it for its "buffish" qualities, but it's a chrome tan.

Xtracted wrote:Could you please show some close ups of how it was stitched to the gloves? I am curious how you run the stitches to make it look and work smoothly.

I'll try to get some useful closeups later today.

Mac

I thought that a diagram might help to show how the lining leathers of the fingers were stitched to the glove.

This is a cross section through the finger showing the plate, a rivet, the finger leather, and the two pieces of leather that make up the finger. Note that the original seams in the glove leather are on the inside, and their stitching is represented by short straight lines through the two layers.

The left side shows how the glove leather is manipulated to give the needle a straight path in and out of the upper glove leather and through the finger lining leather. The right side shows what the final sewing thread path looks like. I have represented it as a loop, but it is really a spiral that passes through the plane of the drawing.




Mac

Mac,

I had meant to ask about the various internal leathers you used but my post seems to have been lost in the ether.
If possible could you tell us a bit about the particular properties you look for in the leather used for each of the different applications?

Tom B. wrote:Mac,

I had meant to ask about the various internal leathers you used but my post seems to have been lost in the ether.

Doh! My bad.

Tom B. wrote:If possible could you tell us a bit about the particular properties you look for in the leather used for each of the different applications?

Historically, the "go to" for internal leathers would have been buff. The epidermis will have been removed, and both sides will look about the same.

The thing you want is suppleness without stretchyness. I am using a heavy chrome tanned split. It's basically like those "craft" splits that one can get from Tandy's, but much thicker... about 10oz or so. I bought a lifetime supply of it at a leather store in Syracuse NY about 20 years ago. I have no idea where to get any more. The store is long closed and the brothers who owned it long dead.


Lining strips seem to have been thinner versions of a similar thing... probably an oil tanned (but possibly tawed) calf or perhaps some other ungulate. Sometimes they had the epidermis intact, but often it had been removed.

What you need most here is a relatively thin (4-5 0z) leather that will sew well without tearing out. Deer skin would do OK, but it is a bit too "glovey" and prone to stretching. Chamois ("shammy" from the local auto parts house) has pretty good properties but is a bit thin. I'm using a "nubuck" chrome tanned leather. When I run out, I'm not at all sure where my next side is coming from. One of those "craft splits" of a suitable color might work OK. Perhaps a rule or thumb for lining strip leather might be to ask the question "would I buy work gloves made of this?" If the answer is "no, they'd be too stiff" leave it. If the answer is "no, they'd be too stretchy" leave it. If the answer is " no, they'd wear out in no time", leave it. Lining strip leather is one of those things you have to actually handle (and stick an awl through the edge of) before you buy. If you can stick an awl through it about one thickness from the edge and have trouble tearing it out sideways, that's a good sign. If the awl splits the leather out to the edge, don't even consider it further.

Warning! Mini-rant ahead.

In either of these cases, one has to be wary of falling into the classic reenactor's trap of "pedigree vs. properties". Vegetable tanned leathers will not give you the characteristics you need. If you can't get what they actually did use, you have to substitute something behaves similarly, and not something else that they would have had but didn't use.

Mac

Mac wrote:

Great sketch! So you fold the side of the glove while pushing the needle through, then stretch it to make the thread long enough to not fold the glove leather again. How long would you say the stitches are?

In my experience, elk is the best gauntlet leather. I am interested in kangaroo, however. Has anyone tried American bison? The elk hide has far less stretch than deer, far tougher, and still supple. I gloved the old 'gothic gauntlet #1' over a decade ago with an elk glove, have worn it often, and it shows little sign of wear. Goat skin gloves require frequent replacement, in my experience. I can get a business card out of my wallet while wearing my gauntlets, so they definitely pass Mac's test.

James Arlen Gillaspie wrote:In my experience, elk is the best gauntlet leather. I am interested in kangaroo, however. The elk hide has far less stretch than deer, far tougher, and still supple. I gloved the old 'gothic gauntlet #1' over a decade ago with an elk glove, have worn it often, and it shows little sign of wear. I can get a business card out of my wallet while wearing my gauntlets, so they definitely pass Mac's test.

I too have been very happy with elk gloves for my current gauntlets.
I bought a sample pack of of kangaroo a few years ago and it did look promising for applications such as the lining for fingers.
The same place that I bought the kangaroo sample pack from also sold gloves but I have never handled a pair.

I'm partial to goatskin, myself, but it wears out rapidly.

If I'm not mistaken, in the custom and use of the leather industry, "elk" is frequently (usually ?) cow hide that has been tanned to resemble deer. The inherent difference between the skins of the Bovidae and the Cervidae may well account for the reduction in stretchyness in the gloves that one buys as "elk" vs "deer", "buck" etc.

That said, a quick search on the web did not confirm what I think I know. I could not get past the guys who were hyping elkskin, and into the technical details and or truth.

Perhaps Kel Rekuta can weigh in and give us the low down.

Mac

Xtracted wrote: So you fold the side of the glove while pushing the needle through, then stretch it to make the thread long enough to not fold the glove leather again.

That's basically it, but simpler. There's no need to worry about the thread length. You just pull the stitches up snug, and the leather adjusts its self when you put your fingers in the glove.

Xtracted wrote:How long would you say the stitches are?

I'm assuming that you want to know distance between stitches. It's about 3mm.... sometimes a bit closer to 4. I used the stitches that were already in the glove as a sort of guide, and mostly tried to match that stitch for stitch.



Mac

I promised folks at Metlab that I would get them a pic of the armor as soon as I could so they could put a little article in their newsletter. The helmet is not really done yet, and the two chinstrap rivets are just plugged into the holes for now.... but here is pic I took this evening to see how the backdrop and camera angles were working.



Tomorrow I will start in on the helmet padding as soon as I have shoveled the snow that they are predicting for tonight.

Mac

Edit--- I changed the pic for one that was shot from a bit lower to more closely match the statue.

Fantastic.

A very nice piece of work.

I look forward to seeing whatever bit I can in person.

Wade

It's quite amazing how you have been able to recreate this artwork (art representing art) but at the same time adapting it to a real person to be not just art but a working piece of equipment. This is like a double backflip.

Top shelf, as always.

Thanks, Guys!

The beautiful backdrop is 3 yards of quilt lining from Joann's fabrics that rolls onto a 1 1/2 pvc pipe hanging from the I beam in the middle of the shop. The overhead lights are on two circuits, and I have turned off the ones in the back of the room. It's not very professional photographic set up, but it does keep the camera from seeing the shop clutter.

It's still snowing here, but we did not get anything like the terrible depths that the fear mongers predicted. There's about 4" of ice pellets mixed with real snow. It's not deep, but it's heavier than a M F.

Mac

Just... stunning.

Awesome Mac! I bet your patron is really excited.

I am quite impressed.*

*aka 'stunned'

I got a start on the helmet lining today, and will be getting back to it presently.

The early stages of templating are not represented here. It started with a foam liner that fit, and I cut that apart and made some changes. From there it was the cardboard templates that appear in the pic. Paper patterns were made from these, with the addition of hem and seam allowances.



I pinned three layers of cotton batting in place and then basted them in place. It seems like I never use the same procedure twice on helmet linings. This is the first time I have tried basting the batting this way. So far it has been easy, and I am excited to see how this works out.



The pinning..... .... the basting.



Then I trimmed the layers of batting according to a cunning plan. In general, I want some of the batting to go all the way to the seam, and some to be trimmed away enough to make room for the seam allowances. I marked the batting with a ruler and a felt tip pen and cut it with scissors.



When that was done, I pinned the second layer of lining fabric to the patted layer. The next step will be to sew them at 1/2".



Mac

Bravo! Very glad you're documenting the lining construction as well. . .

August Patron wrote:I am quite impressed.*

*aka 'stunned'

Thank you!

Mac

It looks as if St Sebastian is pleased with the helmet liner construction

Tom B. wrote:It looks as if St Sebastian is pleased with the helmet liner construction

St Sebastian was a Christmas present from my wife. As pincushions go, he's a bit top heavy, but I like him.

Mac

Having sewn the parts together, I trimmed the corners and the seam allowances.



Turning the pads right side in worked very smoothly with the batting basted on. The batting stayed where it was supposed to and there was no need for strong language. I will definitely use that technique again.



The next step is a reality check. I put the pads in the helmet to see if they take up about as much room at they should. If they had somehow ended up too long of short in either dimension I would want to know it now. These look OK.



I usually just start quilting and try to keep the pattern regular. Today, I thought I'd try laying out a 1/2" grid on the backs of the pads to keep me honest.



I left the basting in until the quilting was finished.



Here is what the front and back of a pad end up looking like. I'm torn about whether I think it's worth while to lay out a grid. Putting the grid on the back forces one to work from the back. The pattern ends up more regular but the lengths of the "picks" on the front are less regular than if the work had been done from that side. The authentic answer is probably to work form the front and substitute experience for layout.



I started sewing in the eyelets for the drawstring, but only got three of them done before it was time to quit for the night. I'll get pics of them tomorrow.

Mac

I recently used the same technique to quilt a helmet liner but I had already assembled the four sections into the cap... Methinks you have chosen a wiser path!

-Gerhard

Gerhard von Liebau wrote:I recently used the same technique to quilt a helmet liner but I had already assembled the four sections into the cap... Methinks you have chosen a wiser path!

-Gerhard

I try to keep things in manageable units as much as I can.

Mac