The Armour Archive

Zetheros wrote:I heard that soaking sore joints in a pot of boiled ginger medallions works very well, at least it works for my mom's arthritis. Basically what you do is fill up a pot halfway to 3/4 of the way with diced ginger and leave it to boil for 5-7 minutes. The hotter the better, but don't scald yourself!

There's also 'woodlock oil', it's amber colored, and usually comes in a glass vial with chinese print on it. It's a fairly powerful sore muscle rub that can be found around china towns, and I'm sure it's also online. Antibiotics are pretty rough since it's like dropping a bomb on your immune system, but I'm sure your doctor knew what she was doing, and it's better safe than sorry.

The armour is really shaping up!

Hmm.... that's pretty much what I do when I get sore and achey. I make a whole pot of ginger and sage tea. Drink as much as I can and then soak where ever's ailing me in it.

Zetheros wrote: The armour is really shaping up!

Thank you, Zeth!

jenzinas wrote:

Mac wrote:

Keegan Ingrassia wrote:As to weirdness, the pictures seem to have three lames from the front, but only two at the back.

That's it!
I have a couple of sketches of how this could work, but for the sake of simplicity I am assuming that the sculptor just lost track.
Mac

Really? How would they lose track? Wouldn't the lines carry around?
Isn't that the third lames partly covered by the elbow?

--j

Jenzinas,

It's the upper lames (the ones near the neck) that get weird on the statue. St. Florian's hair covers the transition, so it is impossible to know whether the sculptor just screwed up, or if there really is something unusual going on there.

Mac

Hello, Mac,

I thought of something even craftier, which could be concealed by the flutes/ripples; they could be even less tapered by pushing out the bottom front of the cannon sections a little, just past the point where they bump into the cannon section above when they are bent.

Mac,

Thank you for the clarification. Sorry for my confustion.

Thanks for all the great progress pics.
Best thread ever.

Hal

a really silly question Mac, who's taking the pictures when you're using both hands???

jenzinas wrote:Mac,

Thank you for the clarification. Sorry for my confustion.

My pleasure. (no need to apologize!)

Mac

Halberds wrote:Thanks for all the great progress pics.
Best thread ever.

Hal

Glad you are liking it, Hal.

Mac

bartholomew wrote:a really silly question Mac, who's taking the pictures when you're using both hands???

Is that you, Danny?

The camera is on a tripod and the shutter is set to go in 10 seconds, and then again 10 seconds later. I can usually manage to get something usable that way.

Mac

Mac wrote:

Keegan Ingrassia wrote:As to weirdness, the pictures seem to have three lames from the front, but only two at the back.

That's it!

I have a couple of sketches of how this could work, but for the sake of simplicity I am assuming that the sculptor just lost track.

Mac

Could it be that what appears as an edge of a lame in front is actually the top most flute carrying over the shoulder from the back?

yup Mac, it's me. I just wish this could be a real hands on experience for all. I love the way you masterfully manipulate the metal into the truly beautiful shapes that only you seem to do. I can't wait each day to see the progress. It also make me feel blessed that I am lucky enough to possess a "Mac" of my own!

Golly, Dan... You're making me blush.

Mac

Lame number two gets a tall hem. I decided to make the hem get gradually smaller from the shoulder to the back. I made up another template for the lame with the hem allowance added on and used that template to cut out the blanks. I used the previous generation of template to mark out the line for the hem allowance on the backs of the blanks.

Having shaped up the plates in the usual manner, I used a little square-faced hammer to mark the beginning of the hem. Note how my fingers are touching the heel of the anvil under the work: this is worth doing whenever the work is narrow enough to permit it. (pay no attention to the blood blister on my thumb...I am sort of pissed about that)



The hem allowance must be flared out to just past 90 degrees. This is hot work, and it will happen in several passes. I have assembled up the other parts of the pauldrons with temporary rivets to lend support to the lame while all this is happening. In addition to that, I thought it prudent to tie the thing with wire to discourage it from spreading. You can see the little brackets under the rivets heads which provide anchors for the wire. I made them up fresh, but when I am done they will end up in the bin of heat-treating hardware. brackets like this come in handy for attaching lifting wires.



I am using a light hammer with a round face.



The first pass takes us to about 45 degrees.



The second pass is much like the first, but I have switched to a slightly flatter hammer. That vice grips keeps the lames at full extension. It is inconvenient to work around, but I think it helps to keep things from distorting. When making a big hem like this, we want very much to avoid letting the lame distort. If it does, it will be difficult to get it back to shape.



A third pass with a moderately flat hammer gets us to 90 degrees.



One more pass with the flat hammer brings us to the desired angle. I did this over a piece of RR track whose end is undercut.



After I put the camera down, I did more work over that same support, but with nothing "inside" the hem. The result was a tall, narrow triangular section. Triangular hems are difficult, and it turns out that tall narrow triangular hems are even harder. I will post pics of that later.... if I can make the results look OK. It's a bit uneven now, but I have some hope of making it look presentable this morning. If not, I will be remaking the lames....

Mac

OK, well, That's just not gonna' do it.

The overall shape of the hem is not so bad.....



....but the edge has too many waves, and they are just too deep. It's not going to grind out an an acceptable way.



These lames are going into the Box of Shame, and I will start an new set after lunch. The fall back position is to do the same thing, but turn the hem to the inside.

There's a reason that armorers shifted from outside hems to inside hems. The outside ones are just plane harder to do. They end up with the edge under compression, and it wants to fall into folds. Unfortunately, that's the edge that everybody can see. Hemming to the inside lets you have a tool inside the hem during the compressive stage. It also lets you put your mistakes on the inside.

Yes. This armor is too early for inside hems, but it's clear that I just don't have the skill to do it the other way. I shall trade one sort of shame for another, but the results will be more pleasing to the eye.

Mac

Mac, don't feel so bad. Check out this guy's work. Most of the old smiths did a pretty crappy job of it (yours would look far better than most with some grinding). Not everyone belonged to Lorenz Helmschmid's shop, and there's a reason he came up with those outside rolls that have a little flange at the bottom - they started out as a wide roll and then he worked them into a narrow one. A real genius way to cheat. The bevor lip, armpit and neck rolls of the 'Sigismund gothic' are like that. Apparently he got fed up with the wrinkling problem too.

Serious Mac if I am ever around your place can I have your trash metal?

RPM

James.... don't tease us man! Have any pics? I total try that !

Those new lames are coming along. I'll get back to them tomorrow.



Mac

James Arlen Gillaspie wrote:Mac, don't feel so bad. Check out this guy's work. Most of the old smiths did a pretty crappy job of it (yours would look far better than most with some grinding). Not everyone belonged to Lorenz Helmschmid's shop, and there's a reason he came up with those outside rolls that have a little flange at the bottom - they started out as a wide roll and then he worked them into a narrow one. A real genius way to cheat. The bevor lip, armpit and neck rolls of the 'Sigismund gothic' are like that. Apparently he got fed up with the wrinkling problem too.

James,

I realize that there was bad work in the 15th C as well, but that's not what I've been paid for. someday I would like to spend some time figuring out "the secretes" of triangular hems. For now, though, I figure it's better to look good for the wrong reason than to look bad for the right reason.

Can you clarify what you think L. H. was doing with his triangular hems? I'm having trouble following your description.

Mac

Hello, Mac,

I'd like to stand that on its head; can anyone out there find an edge rolled to the outside that meets that profile that is really clean? And German? I have offered people substantial discounts if they don't want armour that is better than the real thing. I have warned them what to expect, however!

Here is a pic of a cuirass from the A 79 KMW group;

Wonderful James! Thank you!

Mac, ping Pat Thaden on the triangle hem thing. He did a demo at a workshop I was at years ago that made the whole process look easy - specifically regarding big triangle (and square) rolls. I'm not sure the same tricks will work has high and narrow as you're going, but a scrap piece test would be worth a shot if it gets you exactly what you're after.

Thanks for that pic, James. I see what you mean. It's a hem that makes a virtue of necessity.

I really like that Helmshcmied accent with the double lines and the diagonals in between. I took a good close look at some of that once. The lines appear to be cut, and the diagonals are subsequently punched in. You could tell by the way they had deformed the edges of the lines.

Mac

Jonathon Janusz wrote:Mac, ping Pat Thaden on the triangle hem thing. He did a demo at a workshop I was at years ago that made the whole process look easy - specifically regarding big triangle (and square) rolls. I'm not sure the same tricks will work has high and narrow as you're going, but a scrap piece test would be worth a shot if it gets you exactly what you're after.

Thanks, Jonathon. I will ask him next time we talk. For now, though, I am resolved to do the hem to the inside to avoid trouble.

Mac

So... I overdid it a bit yesterday. My wrists hurt, and so does one of my arthritic old knuckles on my hammer hand. Had I known that being an old craftsman was going to be like this, I might have become an entomologist.

I'll give it a bit of a rest and try again on Monday.

Mac

Hey Mac, do you have that wire strung across the lame to prevent it from deforming while your hemming the edge? Because if so that is brilliant and I wish I'd thought of that about a dozen times in the past. just saying.

Mac wrote:I might have become an entomologist.

Mac

It is not to late ;O)

Mac wrote:So... I overdid it a bit yesterday. My wrists hurt, and so does one of my arthritic old knuckles on my hammer hand. Had I known that being an old craftsman was going to be like this, I might have become an entomologist.

I'll give it a bit of a rest and try again on Monday.

Mac

If you had stuck with Entomology you would have carpel tunnel from working with tiny pins and insects.

You have wrought things. Beautiful, functional things. Not just captured them with a net.

It's great to see you work. Even from this distance. Thanks for sharing and hang in there!

Gruber wrote:Wonderful James! Thank you!

Take a look at the detailed A60 photos I sent you last year.

Armourkris wrote:Hey Mac, do you have that wire strung across the lame to prevent it from deforming while your hemming the edge? Because if so that is brilliant and I wish I'd thought of that about a dozen times in the past. just saying.

Just so, Armourkris. Wiring the free ends of things is a pretty good way to keep them from spreading if they are inclined to do so. I they were going to try to go the other way, you could put in a brace of angle iron. I will probably make up some braces like that when I do the heat treating.

As it happens, the pauldron did not try to spread, but I had the wires and brackets left over from the other day, and I figured there's little harm in using them fore this attempt as well.

Mac

Heinrich H wrote:

Mac wrote:I might have become an entomologist.

Mac

It is not to late ;O)

I fear that there may not be many entry level positions available for entomologists with unused bachelors degrees from 1980. If you hear of anything out your way, drop me a line.

Mac

Johann ColdIron wrote:

Mac wrote:So... I overdid it a bit yesterday. My wrists hurt, and so does one of my arthritic old knuckles on my hammer hand. Had I known that being an old craftsman was going to be like this, I might have become an entomologist.

I'll give it a bit of a rest and try again on Monday.

Mac

If you had stuck with Entomology you would have carpel tunnel from working with tiny pins and insects.

Not to mention the weight thousands of tiny souls upon my shoulders.

Mac

A bit more progress today.

I got the outward leg of the hem nice and flat and then started turning the return leg back on this stake.



It looked like this...



Then I moved to this tool....



....and brought everything down to this.



Tomorrow I will make sure everything is nice and even and then close up the bottom.

Mac

Well Done! I've always wanted to really see how a triangular roll came together. It's great seeing everything in a very simple step by step.